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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 774360 times)

EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3960 on: February 11, 2021, 07:55:04 pm »

No error that I see.  Of course I just remembered that I shouldn't be running it from my desktop.

EDIT: I see what keeps getting me confused.  Unlike the Tactical Squads, all the Devastator Squads on game start are full.  So the player either needs to promote someone to Assault Squad from Devastator Squad, or make a new Devastator Squad by assigning a Sargent to an "empty" one.  I'd suggest leaving at least one Devastator Squad with at least one vacancy so it'll be a little more intuitive.

LordBaal

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3961 on: February 11, 2021, 08:16:29 pm »

Maybe ask to either promote a devastator to an assault squad or create a new devastator squad.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3962 on: February 11, 2021, 08:28:15 pm »

Fun with organizations: You can currently take a Scout Marine whom "is not ready to take the Black Carapace", and promote them to Captain of the Chapter's HQ squad by pushing them through all the roles.  Start by transferring to a Devastator Squad, then an Assault Squad, then Tactical Squad, then Sargent, then Captain.  All in one year.  Here I was thinking that there was an experience requirement to each role, but rather its an organizational requirement.  Also my First Company doesn't get Terminator Armor or equipment.  There goes my master plan to puff up my First Company for Terminator Armor goodness.

LordBaal

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3963 on: February 11, 2021, 08:48:51 pm »

Well, in theory experience is required in each stage, once enough proficiency is shown and tested the marine can go to the next. The ones that show specially good skills in one role stick to it for longer or become sargeants of those squads.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3964 on: February 11, 2021, 09:34:09 pm »

No error that I see.  Of course I just remembered that I shouldn't be running it from my desktop.

EDIT: I see what keeps getting me confused.  Unlike the Tactical Squads, all the Devastator Squads on game start are full.  So the player either needs to promote someone to Assault Squad from Devastator Squad, or make a new Devastator Squad by assigning a Sargent to an "empty" one.  I'd suggest leaving at least one Devastator Squad with at least one vacancy so it'll be a little more intuitive.

This is a function of a combination of things: the assumption that you're starting with an ultra-green chapter, fresh from the generation tanks, and the older canonical idea that Marine promotion trackers are Scout->Devastator->Tactical->Assault (basically, least to most deadly). I think it's mathematically possible the RNG delivers you a Chapter with open Devastator slots to start.. I don't remember offhand how likely that is. (And, really, there's an argument that _none_ of your marines should start as Tactical or Assault marines... this is one of those areas where canonical sources are silent, and I don't think I buy the "oh, some of the parent chapter marines just join the new chapter" argument. Not that it's clear how a new Chapter gets trained up without that...)

I'd say "go get some of your Devastators killed to make room", but if you can't advance past the first turn, I should solve that problem first. :-D
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 09:43:58 pm by ndkid »
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ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3965 on: February 11, 2021, 09:41:14 pm »

Fun with organizations: You can currently take a Scout Marine whom "is not ready to take the Black Carapace", and promote them to Captain of the Chapter's HQ squad by pushing them through all the roles.  Start by transferring to a Devastator Squad, then an Assault Squad, then Tactical Squad, then Sargent, then Captain.  All in one year.  Here I was thinking that there was an experience requirement to each role, but rather its an organizational requirement.  Also my First Company doesn't get Terminator Armor or equipment.  There goes my master plan to puff up my First Company for Terminator Armor goodness.

Yep, I currently let the CM promote to his heart's content... who would dare question your judgment? Down the road, I may have fun with the idea of a veteran being miffed at being passed over for promotion being more open to the whispers of chaos... (I really don't like representing your marines in terms of their stats, and even the awards they earn in character generation have random elements applied to keep it from being a pure "this stat gets this award" play... and they all involve a mix of stats and skills, to boot. So, by the same preference, I didn't want any stat-based limitations to how you assign your marines. If someone hacks twenty cultists apart in hand-to-hand in a battle, make him an Assault Marine, regardless of whether he earned the Gold Sword of the Emperor, I say!)

The lack of nifty equipment is actually more "as intended" than just "not implemented". Given the extremely small numbers of Terminator Armor suits made, my thinking was that your newly founded chapter would start with none, and then the promise of them could drive early quests... rumors of dead Terminators from other chapters lost in floating hulks, that Mechanicus representative who promises you one if you just go do this thing for him, recovering and repurifying some from a local group of Chaos marines, etc, etc. I'll probably do something similar with Land Raiders, artifact weapons, and the like.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 09:43:36 pm by ndkid »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3966 on: February 11, 2021, 10:03:35 pm »

Everything you said regarding Terminator Armor makes a lot of sense.  Even established Chapters only outfit half of their First Company in Terminator Armor, and I think that has more to do with its rarity than anything else.

As for experience, stats, etc, I'd just like a little more clarity on how good my individual marines might or might not be.  I can only vaguely decipher what all the metals mean, and I'm sure that the Sargent would have a pretty good feel on the capabilities of his squad, and the Captains would have their opinions about everyone, etc.

One minor problem I'm seeing is how to divide up the Apothecarys among the various attachments.  Unless I'm fielding the Chapter en masse, they need to be assigned individually instead of by their department.

Also, game tends to lockup/not save/fail to load after ordering ship movement.  Can't pinpoint it, no error log is being generated.  Anything else I can send next time I encounter issues?
EDIT: I can see that if I don't see "SAVED!", then the save hasn't worked.  If I'm really lucky, it'll go back to the last time that I saved, but usually I'll hit the save button again and completely destroy the save.

Also, the ship movement screen blocks the right side of the screen, disallowing any travel to planets in that area and keeping me from playing the game should my starting planet be in that area.  Simple workaround might be to just put more dead space around the outer edges of the system, so I can always move the map to put the planets outside that area.

EDIT2: Overall, my biggest problem is finding something to fight.  I understand there is an intelligence system at work, so I need to scout out enemies, but I haven't found anything yet.  Maybe I'll just cover the system in Scout Marines and Ships.  I certainly start with enough Scout Marines... :P

EDIT3: Bottom screen buttons disappeared again.  I'm thinking it may be because the game triggered some sort of message, and the message made the buttons go away.  It would explain why they seem to go away randomly after hitting the next turn button.

ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3967 on: February 11, 2021, 10:54:17 pm »

As for experience, stats, etc, I'd just like a little more clarity on how good my individual marines might or might not be.  I can only vaguely decipher what all the metals mean, and I'm sure that the Sargent would have a pretty good feel on the capabilities of his squad, and the Captains would have their opinions about everyone, etc.
As a manager of people in my day job, I'm a little more cynical on this point. :-D
But, fair point. I do think, longer term, I'll probably do something for regular marines that you can currently see with scouts in the recruitment window. Part of what I'll need to wrestle with is the idea that the bar should probably go up as the chapter matures and gains experience over the years/centuries. For now, the medals are basically all bronze/silver/gold, and align with:
Sword: Hand to hand
Marksman: Shootin'
Voice: Leadership potential
Banner: standard bearer (which is mostly about the ability to take a lickin' and keep tickin', for now)


One minor problem I'm seeing is how to divide up the Apothecarys among the various attachments.  Unless I'm fielding the Chapter en masse, they need to be assigned individually instead of by their department.
Yeah, apoths aren't nearly fleshed out yet. I want apoth count to impact marine healing rates, potentially get marines standing again on the battlefield (though right now, they basically only fall over when you shoot a leg off), etc. None of the chapter specialists are fleshed out yet. (Techmarines feel like the biggest handwave I'm making, right now, given how long they're actually supposed to spend on Mars.)

Also, game tends to lockup/not save/fail to load after ordering ship movement.  Can't pinpoint it, no error log is being generated.  Anything else I can send next time I encounter issues?
EDIT: I can see that if I don't see "SAVED!", then the save hasn't worked.  If I'm really lucky, it'll go back to the last time that I saved, but usually I'll hit the save button again and completely destroy the save.
I'm currently trying to replicate the "make org changes, end turn, buttons don't come back" error you reported, with no success. I though Unity automatically logged exceptions, but that's clearly not happening, so I'll take some time this weekend to get some proper error logging in place. I'll fiddle with ship movement next. Does it seem to matter whether you've loaded marines onto the ships or not? Whether you're sending the whole fleet or breaking it up?

Also, the ship movement screen blocks the right side of the screen, disallowing any travel to planets in that area and keeping me from playing the game should my starting planet be in that area.  Simple workaround might be to just put more dead space around the outer edges of the system, so I can always move the map to put the planets outside that area.
d'oh. Yeah, I think adding padding to the outside of the map is the way to go; it'll be easier and about the same result as making the location edge of the map move left when that screen is open.

EDIT2: Overall, my biggest problem is finding something to fight.  I understand there is an intelligence system at work, so I need to scout out enemies, but I haven't found anything yet.  Maybe I'll just cover the system in Scout Marines and Ships.  I certainly start with enough Scout Marines... :P
The pink systems (there should be at least a few around) have some small Tyranid armies to go up against. Once you blast them out, nothing new is getting made in the current build. I'm most of the way through implementing Genestealer cults next, but those will develop slowly and rarely, for now, so there's not nearly enough excitement in the universe yet for more than a handful of battles.

EDIT3: Bottom screen buttons disappeared again.  I'm thinking it may be because the game triggered some sort of message, and the message made the buttons go away.  It would explain why they seem to go away randomly after hitting the next turn button.

I hide the buttons at the end of the turn because, when you have a battle pop up, if they're still there, you can get the UI into a bad state. When the battles are all done, they should reappear to start the next turn. The fact that they don't come back makes me think an exception is getting through in the end-of-turn battle logic.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3968 on: February 11, 2021, 11:10:42 pm »

Quote
Yeah, apoths aren't nearly fleshed out yet. I want apoth count to impact marine healing rates, potentially get marines standing again on the battlefield (though right now, they basically only fall over when you shoot a leg off), etc. None of the chapter specialists are fleshed out yet. (Techmarines feel like the biggest handwave I'm making, right now, given how long they're actually supposed to spend on Mars.)

Gene seed recovery too, I hope?
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EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3969 on: February 12, 2021, 04:56:30 pm »

Hm, I was using the 0.5.1 release.  Can't quite figure out how to get a playable version out of the code, dunno if its more current.

ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3970 on: February 12, 2021, 08:12:47 pm »

Hm, I was using the 0.5.1 release.  Can't quite figure out how to get a playable version out of the code, dunno if its more current.
Theoretically, you should be able to install unity, open the project in it, open the main menu scene, hit play, and go. That's how I usually run it (so I can go squash exceptions as they turn up).

Also, game tends to lockup/not save/fail to load after ordering ship movement.  Can't pinpoint it, no error log is being generated.  Anything else I can send next time I encounter issues?
I think I've found this one; I did something stupid when fleets merge back together. Can you tell whether you're having ship movement errors outside of that case?

EDIT: I've also added padding to the map to avoid the whole "can't send ships to the easternmost planets" problem.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 08:31:40 pm by ndkid »
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DeepWinter

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3971 on: February 13, 2021, 02:19:38 am »

So aside from the mod on the github page is there anything else I need installed or does the github download provide everything needed?
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ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3972 on: February 13, 2021, 08:55:19 am »

So aside from the mod on the github page is there anything else I need installed or does the github download provide everything needed?
https://github.com/ndilday/OnlyWar/releases should have everything you need.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3973 on: February 13, 2021, 11:11:35 am »

Also, game tends to lockup/not save/fail to load after ordering ship movement.  Can't pinpoint it, no error log is being generated.  Anything else I can send next time I encounter issues?
I think I've found this one; I did something stupid when fleets merge back together. Can you tell whether you're having ship movement errors outside of that case?

I once had a problem where I moved a ship out of orbit of one system to another system, and yet the game still had an identical ship remain in orbit.  It continued while the original ship went to the other system.

ndkid

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3974 on: February 13, 2021, 05:35:22 pm »

New bugfix release 0.5.2 up at: https://github.com/ndilday/OnlyWar/releases . I've also increased the number of Tyranid planets to make things a little more interesting while I work on other stuff. Hopefully, I'll get more GC stuff in this weekend, such that if a planet manages to fall to a GC revolt, you can go landing trops and having fun against Genestealer Hybrids wielding mining equipment.
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