Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

This game is dead!

Hahahahahaha!
- 7 (41.2%)
Nooooooooooo!
- 10 (58.8%)

Total Members Voted: 17


Pages: 1 ... 271 272 [273] 274 275 ... 350

Author Topic: Ye Gods 1 OOC [21/∞] Talk here  (Read 419446 times)

Andres

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4080 on: January 30, 2015, 09:54:56 pm »

I use "blue-orange morality" for lack of a better term.
Logged
All fanfics are heresy, each and every one, especially the shipping ones. Those are by far the worst.

hector13

  • Bay Watcher
  • It’s shite being Scottish
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4081 on: January 30, 2015, 11:16:59 pm »

I use "blue-orange morality" for lack of a better term.

"Morality" :P
Logged
Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Ama

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm alive!
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4082 on: January 30, 2015, 11:29:56 pm »

If the toss Neron into the sun proposal passes and somehow kills Neron, I'm going to laugh. It will be the best godly death ever. :P
Logged

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4083 on: January 31, 2015, 02:09:39 am »

I think you underestimate the rate science is advancing at, and the rate it will advance. 30 years from now, if we don't have at least basic AI, I will be dumbfounded. Think of the difference between computers 30 years ago, and computers now. There ya go.

As well, I mean, hell, human brain only stores 3 terabytes, but we think we're intelligent.

Find a better term, Andres. Because what it seems like you mean is 'any morality system that isn't mine', but what you're saying is 'almost literally impossible to understand system of ethics that has no basis in the way we perceive reality as far as can be told' when you use that term.
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

Andres

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4084 on: January 31, 2015, 02:28:50 am »

As well, I mean, hell, human brain only stores 3 terabytes, but we think we're intelligent.
The brain stores in petabytes - not terabytes. Petabytes are a lot bigger than terabytes. I don't know who told you that the brain stores in mere terabytes but they are very, very wrong. In any case, our intelligence comes more from how we use those petabytes rather than simply having them.
Logged
All fanfics are heresy, each and every one, especially the shipping ones. Those are by far the worst.

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4085 on: January 31, 2015, 04:05:45 am »

Hm. Point still remains. You don't need that much storage capacity to have an AI, either; that's the absolute upper limit, like when the memory contest people would gradually go insane from having memorized and connected to much stuff so they'd get memory overload from associations.

If we can get the memory to interact with itself and self-code, ta-da, you have an AI. now just make it stop being so buggy and you'll have replicated what nature already accomplished.

Also, it's still about 2.5 to 3 petabytes, and they're just one order of magnitude, computer-wise(where that means 1000) so while they might have gotten the prefix wrong, they were right otherwise.
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

DreamerGhost

  • Bay Watcher
  • Seems legitimate.
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4086 on: January 31, 2015, 08:51:56 am »

We have basic AI now you know. There are robots that learn from example.
Logged
The point of keeping the golems on fire isn't for the value of fire as a weapon. It's more to keep the golems functioning at a reasonable speed.
It was never a promise. It was a dirty lie, and you all knew that. You should all know by now that you can't trust a word I say.

Salsacookies

  • Bay Watcher
  • PRAISE THE CHUNKS!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4087 on: January 31, 2015, 11:46:55 am »

Name: Schrodinger
Sphere: Curiosity
Primary form/associated symbol: Primary form, a thin shadow with large, rather cat-like eyes. His symbol is a simple box, what's in it?
Description/Background: Schrodinger's past is like his being today. He is the patron of the curious and adventurous, always in the shadows, or peeking behind the wall, tempting others to see what's there.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:05:31 pm by Salsacookies »
Logged
Yep, the sig is here
Whoops. Well, shit. Typical salsacookies.
I don't need my cavities checked. I just went to the dentist! Ba-dum-tiss.
I am a Christian

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4088 on: January 31, 2015, 11:56:31 am »

We have basic AI now you know. There are robots that learn from example.
Exactly. So in thirty years, it's not that much to assume it'll be vastly improved.

Although their learning processes now are rather, uh...well...
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

Salsacookies

  • Bay Watcher
  • PRAISE THE CHUNKS!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4089 on: January 31, 2015, 11:59:06 am »

I think we're about to reach a plateau, actually. I think were starting to get up there in the law of diminishing returns 
Logged
Yep, the sig is here
Whoops. Well, shit. Typical salsacookies.
I don't need my cavities checked. I just went to the dentist! Ba-dum-tiss.
I am a Christian

Stirk

  • Bay Watcher
  • Full Metal Nutball
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4090 on: January 31, 2015, 12:08:43 pm »

I think you underestimate the rate science is advancing at, and the rate it will advance. 30 years from now, if we don't have at least basic AI, I will be dumbfounded. Think of the difference between computers 30 years ago, and computers now. There ya go.

As well, I mean, hell, human brain only stores 3 terabytes, but we think we're intelligent.

Find a better term, Andres. Because what it seems like you mean is 'any morality system that isn't mine', but what you're saying is 'almost literally impossible to understand system of ethics that has no basis in the way we perceive reality as far as can be told' when you use that term.

First, we are advancing pretty fast but there is absolutely zero reason to assume that our current computer development will somehow lead to AIs. You are vastly underestimating the difficulties of making AIs and the powers of the human brain. The brain has somewhere between 15 and 33 billion neurons, according to Wikipedia. The source Andres states all seem to believe it only has 1 billion, and I have seen even higher numbers in other locations. The brain is much, much more advanced then any computer we could come up with in a hundred years, let alone thirty. Even if each neuron held one byte, we would hold more information in our heads then any computer we could make in the next hundred years.

And he is also right. Even if we stacked every hard drive ever built together and plugged them into each other, it wouldn't be an AI. Just a very large storage bank for information.

Quote
Hm. Point still remains. You don't need that much storage capacity to have an AI, either; that's the absolute upper limit, like when the memory contest people would gradually go insane from having memorized and connected to much stuff so they'd get memory overload from associations.

....Wh...what? When has anyone ever gone insane from having memorized so much stuff the overloaded? When has anyone even assumed that was possible?


Quote
If we can get the memory to interact with itself and self-code, ta-da, you have an AI. now just make it stop being so buggy and you'll have replicated what nature already accomplished.

....No, no you don't. Do...you understand anything about coding? Anything about memory? Anything about AI? From what you have said, I can assume you do not.

Quote
Also, it's still about 2.5 to 3 petabytes, and they're just one order of magnitude, computer-wise(where that means 1000) so while they might have gotten the prefix wrong, they were right otherwise.

As I said before, every source that states that also states the human brain only has one billion neurons. Other sources state that the brain has anywhere from 33 billion to 100 billion. As it is said, "There are as many neurons in the human brain as there are stars in the milky way". If we assume all your sources are correct even after making such a simple and absolutely glaring mistake, we would have over 300 petabytes (max), and I still find that unlikely low.

We have basic AI now you know. There are robots that learn from example.

They aren't really the kind of "AI" he is talking about, and if we where to include anything that could be called an "AI" we might as well point out vidiogames exist.

In conclusion, you are both vastly oversimplifying the difficulties of making a "artificial general intelligence" machine and vastly underestimating the human mind. From what I can tell, even the very, very optimistic beliefs of people who know what they are talking about don't thing we can have anything like it with in thirty years.


Logged
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

This is my waifu, this is my gun. This one's for fighting, this ones for fun.

IcyTea31

  • Bay Watcher
  • Studying functions and fiction
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4091 on: January 31, 2015, 12:15:10 pm »

I would predict that we're about to reach a technological singularity, on the contrary to a plateau and diminishing returns. By definition, I can't say what that singularity will bring, except a huge change in life. As noted, machines can soon replace humans in many facets. The question is, what will all us now-unnecessary humans do when we can't do anything useful to society?


Quote
Hm. Point still remains. You don't need that much storage capacity to have an AI, either; that's the absolute upper limit, like when the memory contest people would gradually go insane from having memorized and connected to much stuff so they'd get memory overload from associations.
....Wh...what? When has anyone ever gone insane from having memorized so much stuff the overloaded? When has anyone even assumed that was possible?
There are some people who have lost the ability to forget. They are severely disabled in everyday things that require your attention in the now. For example, when driving and they see a traffic sign, they get a flashback to another time they saw a similar sign, which is bad for attention and might lead to an accident. The full phrase in Andres' post was "memory overload from associations".
Logged
There is a world yet only seen by physicists and magicians.

Stirk

  • Bay Watcher
  • Full Metal Nutball
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4092 on: January 31, 2015, 12:35:21 pm »

Quote
I would predict that we're about to reach a technological singularity, on the contrary to a plateau and diminishing returns. By definition, I can't say what that singularity will bring, except a huge change in life. As noted, machines can soon replace humans in many facets. The question is, what will all us now-unnecessary humans do when we can't do anything useful to society?

Why would you assume that? He is right in that we can only go so small with our current technology, and real life isn't a video game where throwing research points at something will automatically make it happen. What do you mean by "singularity"? What do you mean by "replace humans in many facets"? I don't think that is the question when we have the question of this being anywhere near feasible in the near future.

Besides, it wouldn't exactly be hard to plug the humans into one of these alleged "super duper smart computers!" to improve their intelligence to that of the computers. Because we would already be using magical pixie dust to get there at this point.

Quote
There are some people who have lost the ability to forget. They are severely disabled in everyday things that require your attention in the now. For example, when driving and they see a traffic sign, they get a flashback to another time they saw a similar sign, which is bad for attention and might lead to an accident. The full phrase in Andres' post was "memory overload from associations".

I can't find anything like that existing. The closest thing I can find is hyperthymesia, which doesn't appear to work at all as you describe. They seem to have some difficulties, but it appears to be more "Keep getting distracted thinking about the past because they have legitimate OCD about it", and they haven't "lost the ability to forget" so much as they obsess about their past to the point it is nearly impossible to forget.
Logged
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

This is my waifu, this is my gun. This one's for fighting, this ones for fun.

Rolepgeek

  • Bay Watcher
  • They see me rollin' they savin'~
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4093 on: January 31, 2015, 12:51:51 pm »

Humans are the basis of society; it's not just one long manufacturing line. And we can always just replace the meaty bits with metal bits, after all.

Read my posts, Stirk, before responding. Memory Contest people. Do it for shows and the like. It is a real, if uncommon, thing; just cause you haven't heard of it til now doesn't mean it's not real.

Additionally, if nothing else we could always just make what amount to mechanical neurons, with how nanotechnology and gentix engineering is progressing. In ten years? Probably not. In twenty? Still unlikely. But thirty years is a long time for technology, in the modern day.

Well, Stirk, you aren't the foremost expert nor do I have any reason to believe you would be better educated in the field I'm more or less planning to go into than I do, so I have zero reason to believe your assumptions and sources are any more credible than my own! And yes I simplified it a bit but the gist of AI is a set of software and behavioral principles that constantly learns and adapts. That's more or less what intelligence is.

Also, one neuron doesn't equal one byte. They aren't on-off switches that can be read and interpreted. There're pathways and snipped bits and the bits that don't do anything besides preventing another bit from functioning and blah-dy-blah-dy blah. Just because I don't feel like getting into an in-depth discussion about the nature of organic versus inorganic processing power doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I just don't care enough about debating things with you, because you just do it for argument's sake rather than any actual desire to learn. Or do anything other than point at people you arbitrarily decide are less intelligent than you because they have different viewpoints beliefs and ideas, and laugh at them for being stupid.
Logged
Sincerely, Role P. Geek

Optimism is Painful.
Optimize anyway.

IcyTea31

  • Bay Watcher
  • Studying functions and fiction
    • View Profile
Re: Ye Gods OOC [13/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #4094 on: January 31, 2015, 12:55:19 pm »

Just remembered the rule about off-topic conversations. I'll make some fanart in a while.

What do you mean by "singularity"?
Technology causes a change in society we couldn't even have imagined, say, 50 years ago.

Quote
What do you mean by "replace humans in many facets"? I don't think that is the question when we have the question of this being anywhere near feasible in the near future.
'Near future'? Try 'now'.

Quote
Why would you assume that?
It has happened before. Agriculture, writing, gunpowder, industry, computers... And the way it is going, it has to happen or we (mankind) will collapse as the current form of society does.

Quote
Besides, it wouldn't exactly be hard to plug the humans into one of these alleged "super duper smart computers!" to improve their intelligence to that of the computers.
That is one solution. Getting it to work in practice is another problem, though.

Quote
The closest thing I can find is hyperthymesia, which doesn't appear to work at all as you describe.
Quote from: Your own Wikipedia source
Hyperthymestic abilities can have a detrimental effect on cognitive capacity. The constant, irrepressible stream of memories has caused significant disruption to AJ's life. She described her recollection as "non-stop, uncontrollable and totally exhausting" and as "a burden". Like all hyperthymestics, AJ is prone to getting lost in remembering. This can make it difficult to attend to the present or future as she is permanently living in the past.
Logged
There is a world yet only seen by physicists and magicians.
Pages: 1 ... 271 272 [273] 274 275 ... 350