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[smeeprocket]

I'm hearing conflicting reports now because the wiki said that opening up multiple z levels of tiles will make them aboveground, as in having 3 empty spaces on top of each other over one square along a hallway and such.

Has anyone tested this one way or the other and would a window or grate have the same effect?

[Dirst]

Like with outside farming you can make a glass roof to the outside and build a statue garden or something.

Glass roofs are considered transparent?  Glass walls aren't.

[smeeprocket]

Dwarves can see things on the other side of glass walls. Are you using them as such

= wall
-glass

====
  --

or as such

=--=

You can set them in front of a wall like the top for decoration either way, but you need the bottom for them to be see through and let light in.

edit: or do you mean walls constructed out of glass itself? Because those are still ultimately walls, though quite extravagant (I didn't even know that was possible)

[Dirst]

Dwarves can see things on the other side of glass walls. Are you using them as such

= wall
-glass

====
  --

or as such

=--=

You can set them in front of a wall like the top for decoration either way, but you need the bottom for them to be see through and let light in.

edit: or do you mean walls constructed out of glass itself? Because those are still ultimately walls, though quite extravagant (I didn't even know that was possible)

Glass windows are transparent for line-of-sight, but iirc walls made from glass blocks are not.  That's why I was surprised that a floor made from glass blocks could be transparent.

[smeeprocket]

in retrospect, there are no floor windows so I guess it would have to be floor tiles.

Alternately, I could create a mandatory bridge between the workshops and the dining hall that goes outside into a tunnel with glass windows. However, those windows would be targets for building destroyers I might otherwise want to hide from. But I could put some emergency features into place to switch routes via bridges if need be.

[Miuramir]

I'm hearing conflicting reports now because the wiki said that opening up multiple z levels of tiles will make them aboveground, as in having 3 empty spaces on top of each other over one square along a hallway and such.

Part of the confusion is that there are currently three states: "Outside Light Above Ground", "Inside Light Above Ground", and "Inside Dark Subterranean". 

Changing Dark Subterranean to Light Above Ground is a *permanent* change; rays of light fall vertically in each square from the top of the sky, changing every square they pass through until they hit something.  Once changed, you can't change it back; you can build a ceiling of glass, or of cheese, or obsidian cast an entire mountain above it; doesn't matter, any square changed to Light Above Ground will remain that way forever.  Some people, for their own roleplaying reasons, will channel out the layer(s) of roof over their garden, and then build a glass roof to seal it back off from attacking flyers and weather, while retaining the ability to grow above-ground plants; but mechanically the fact that the roof is glass is irrelevant; you'd get the same effect if the roof was microcline to give a nice artificial sky blue color, or of unicorn soap for the imaginary sparkling, or whatever. 

Outside is determined in generally the same way, but is reversible; if you block the rays of Outside-ness falling from the top of the sky, you can become Inside again (or even if it never was originally). 

Outside Light Above Ground *removes* cave adaptation points; Inside Dark Subterranean *adds* cave adaptation points; Inside Light Above Ground does neither.  So, if you have dwarves who spend a little time outside already, but tend to be be too cave adapted on average, you can change the accumulation in several ways.  Spending more time in OLAG is only one; you could also reduce the time they spend gaining points from IDS by channeling and then re-roofing the upper parts of your fort, converting more of their time into neutral ILAG. 

If the rays of Light Above Ground falling from the sky top can reach a square, it doesn't matter how far underground it originally was, as a note.  It's always high noon at the equator on the equinox in DF as far as light is concerned, falling straight down vertically any distance until stopped.  Note this means that unlike the real world, windows have no effect on whether something is lit or not. 

Conversely, it doesn't matter how much open space is above a square if it isn't open to the sky at the top. 

[mnjiman]

Eh putting a floor up after caving the roof in seems too cheaty.

I would like it if we could but grates up instead of just floors. That way you still let light in but if there are scary shit above, you have to deal with it or your dwarves will get horrified more often.

[Aslandus]

Eh putting a floor up after caving the roof in seems too cheaty.

I would like it if we could but grates up instead of just floors. That way you still let light in but if there are scary shit above, you have to deal with it or your dwarves will get horrified more often.

Pretty sure things like windows and grates can be broken by building destroyers because they're considered furniture... so not ideal in terms of defense...

[GavJ]

These days it actually requires that the tile be outside to be an effective solution.  Inside tiles, like what you just described, simply keep cave adaptation at the same level, but does not improve the condition.  Though having all the social areas lit will go a long way toward delaying the onset.

So just make it a bridge instead with a short smooth stone "chimney" at the top, leave open usually, and close when sieges arrive. Check for fliers, if non, re-open. If yes, wait till they're dead / dealt with.

I'm not sure if channeling out in the first place a whole dining room area is worth avoiding sickness, but if you're gonna do that anyway, the bridge is trivial.

The only threat is burning hot procedurally generated flying titans, which is not a real threat (especially since they'd have no reason to stand on your chimney anyway)

[Aslandus]

I heard somewhere that bridges count as being closed all the time when they're built for purposes of inside/outside, though I haven't checked if that's true

[smeeprocket]

What I'm going to do is have two passageways, one with no roof and one on an alternate route. I will have bridges that block off the outdoor passageway linked to a lever and pull that lever when invaders come. If the first passage is blocked off the other passage is open, if the other passage is blocked off the first passage is open, not from bridges on the top but on the back and front of the passage.