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Author Topic: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014  (Read 68419 times)

Skuggen

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2014, 06:27:02 am »

I rather like the idea of tactics being something the civilization can learn, like taming/training animals.

So if your civ is experienced at fighting elves, your dwarves will know to use certain formations and tactics when facing different types of them (shield wall when facing archers, otherwise stand around laughing at their wooden equipment).
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CaptainLambcake

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #196 on: December 15, 2014, 05:30:59 pm »

I'll try raising pop cap to 100, but I ran out of plump helmet seeds somehow so I worry about sustaining it.
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You wake up in (suddenly) your room not somewhere Armok knows where. Travels in deserts and goblin forests turned up to be a dreams borned by procreation of your autistic imagination.

Bigheaded

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #197 on: December 16, 2014, 07:41:54 am »

I'll try raising pop cap to 100, but I ran out of plump helmet seeds somehow so I worry about sustaining it.

If you have a large area of sand/soil. dig a large amount out, make sure you've seen the caverns. You should then get cavern plants to grow in the area you dug out. designate the area for plant gathering (d->p) once or twice a year, problem solved. Picking up some extra seeds from the caravan can't hurt either.

If you're able to get outside with a safe area for farming, it helps getting some seeds for above ground farming also.

If you're worried about food, then breeding some form of animal is usually the easiest way.
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Dear Urist McStockpileDrone
I just found a barrel which contained a wheelbarrow. Inside the wheelbarrow was another barrel. I don't even understand how that is possible.

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #198 on: December 16, 2014, 11:33:56 am »

Running out of food in DF is hard to do with an established fort of even 200 dwarves. It is only during the first 2 years or so that players have to worry about starving.
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Volfgarix

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #199 on: December 16, 2014, 11:48:57 am »

Depends where you embark.
If you went to forested area, then even first years aren't hard, just gather plants/fruits and hunt animals.
Food making is so damn easy.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #200 on: December 16, 2014, 01:54:09 pm »

Depends where you embark.
If you went to forested area, then even first years aren't hard, just gather plants/fruits and hunt animals.
Food making is so damn easy.

Too easy, especially agriculture. Crop cycles should be longer, proper irrigation, soil degradation...

All things to hope for in DF2016.
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On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

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CaptainLambcake

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #201 on: December 16, 2014, 05:14:58 pm »

ive been playing for a year and never worried about running out of food.  I come with about 50 plump seeds and i'm fine.  somehow I ran out of them this time.
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You wake up in (suddenly) your room not somewhere Armok knows where. Travels in deserts and goblin forests turned up to be a dreams borned by procreation of your autistic imagination.

Bigheaded

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #202 on: December 16, 2014, 05:30:36 pm »

ive been playing for a year and never worried about running out of food.  I come with about 50 plump seeds and i'm fine.  somehow I ran out of them this time.
we still don't get what the problem is. Do you have access to the outside? if so you can just designate 4 dwarves to pick plants. If you do not, go down to the caverns and make an entrance that is 1 tile think and really long, and then fill that with cage traps (about 10 should be adequate, 20 to be on the very safe side) this should produce a large amount of food if you butcher anything which comes from the caverns and get the military to train on the troglodytes. Or even just make indoor farming, i would "expect" you have at least 1 layer of soil you can use and allow plants to grow there.

Also, see how many animals you have. At worst butcher the lot and request new ones from caravan.
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Dear Urist McStockpileDrone
I just found a barrel which contained a wheelbarrow. Inside the wheelbarrow was another barrel. I don't even understand how that is possible.

Aslandus

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #203 on: December 16, 2014, 08:33:15 pm »

Depends where you embark.
If you went to forested area, then even first years aren't hard, just gather plants/fruits and hunt animals.
Food making is so damn easy.

Too easy, especially agriculture. Crop cycles should be longer, proper irrigation, soil degradation...

All things to hope for in DF2016.
Not to mention how dwarves only need to eat like 4 times a year each, my current fortress has about 2000 prepared meals and growing with a population of 120...

Ancalagon_TB

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #204 on: December 17, 2014, 08:46:47 am »

ive been playing for a year and never worried about running out of food.  I come with about 50 plump seeds and i'm fine.  somehow I ran out of them this time.

2 suggestions: 

1: Make sure that in the kitchen view (U) that you aren't cooking them - that kills the seeds.  The mature plant has to be eaten raw or brewed to generate more seeds

2:  You have built farm plots, are you sure that they have been designated to grow specific crops?  Are there barrels and stockpile to collect the mature crops?  How much farm area do you have? 

You shouldn't run out of plump helmets unless something is wrong.   
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #205 on: December 17, 2014, 12:03:30 pm »

Cooking plump helmet destroys the spawn, so don't cook them. Dwarves can eat them raw. Just brew them.
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Snaake

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #206 on: December 17, 2014, 04:32:37 pm »

To the 'nobody attacks me' crowd

I've found out that the goblins arent using some of the weapons they could be, like giant axes, due to a bug.  I reduced the minsize of several 2h weapons from 62500 to 60000, the size of gobbos.  They are doing much better now . . .  Even keeping parity with their elven oppressors.

Seriously, for better goblins, give them the ability to use the very weapons they can make!

A side benefit is giving dwarves who are large enough the ability to use those weapons as well.

This is a known bug from over 2½ years ago. Although goblins not using them might be a new bug, but probably related, anyway. I used to do that RAW edit-workaround all the time in 34.xx.


In general, in this thread (when it was still mostly about the no-attacks problem, although it seems to have re-railed itself somewhat) a lot of people seem to be confusing what is most likely a bug that results in a few players practically not getting attacked at all, with a new feature, which does make the game more balanced, by making sieges a *bit* more rare. 34.xx and earlier had a thread every now and then about players complaining about nonstop attacks (2-3 a year), and/or not having nearly enough time to clean up after an attack even if sieges did only happen once per year (this has happened to pretty much everyone at one point or another, I think). Now others are complaining that attacks are rare - note my previous comment that if attacks aren't happening at all, it's more probably a bug, and posting more saves/trying to narrow down the cause or causes would be more productive than whining that your war game is broken. And that that's *clearly* the one true purpose of the game, because you say so.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #207 on: December 18, 2014, 12:03:33 pm »

The weapons bug is an old one, but one that really needs fixing, especially when it is so simple to fix.

I mostly agree with Snaake on this - goblin attacks have not stopped, I have got them myself, as have other players. There are fewer of them now, but the problem is the stories of players embarking next to dark fortresses and not being attacked at all (a bug) rather than goblin armies actually having to follow basic logistics and make some sense (a feature).
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Miuramir

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #208 on: December 18, 2014, 02:38:23 pm »

Abstracting fort's population is gotta be more difficult without losing resolution, though, but entirely possible.

Old-school miniatures gaming did this in a semi-abstract fashion.  One physical miniature would often represent 5, 10 or even 20 men; few gamers could afford (store, transport, etc.) enough actual minis for even a late-period 1,040 man legion, let alone a pre-Marian one of over 5,000 combat effective plus support, auxiliaries, train, etc.  Yet, for simplicity's sake, combat was frequently resolved as if the minis were individuals once formations were broken.  Many computer games have similar abstractions; a "worker" unit off collecting wood or minerals or constructing a building would logically represent many such workers in a more realistic depiction; but simplified to increase FPS and decrease micro-management. 

DF sort of does this already; 7 people is far too small to start a reasonable colony, and a hamlet of 100-200 people would not usually be nearly so self-sufficient in a wide variety of industries, for instance.  If you mentally scale populations up by a factor of 10 or so things make more logical sense.  In some senses the Hill Dwarf integration is supposed to help cover the above; the player's fort effectively being the "keep" and industrial hub for a much larger community. 

I've got some comments on medieval combat for another time; in short, pre-1400 manuals are quite scarce, and much of what we think of as "medieval" dates from much later than DF's close date.  Even the famous Liechtenauer tradition / corpus is largely comprised of later works, although the core dates back to the proper period.  (And note re: another diversion: Paulus Kal's famous list of Fencing Masters includes Ott Jud, "wrestling master to the rulers of Austria".)  One of my holiday projects is to go over copies of and commentary on I.33, which is arguably both one of the most DF-appropriate and one of the earliest Fechtbuch (combat manuals). 

In another direction, DF combat is more often like Celtic or Frankish tribes squabbling amongst themselves than organized, trained Roman tactics.  Very small numbers, no formations to speak of, individual "heroes" who are dramatically more effective than the ordinary rabble, etc.  We don't really *have* armies until the Army Arc; what we've got are more roving bands of surly bandits. 

It's nearly certain that the near-lack of attacks in some situations is not a *balance* issue, but a *bug*; or more likely a whole series of them.  Generation and movement of world-map "armies" is fairly new and quite fiddly still; I have a vague suspicion that some of the "army with no valid orders" errors may be due to either their source or target being taken over while they are in route, for instance.  But there are still valid questions about how often serious attacks *should* happen, once bugs are fixed. 

Goblins don't need to eat or drink.  Think about that for a moment.  One of the reasons is so that they can build up huge populations in evil and/or inhospitable areas, and don't need to worry about a supply train when attacking things like glacier fortresses.  They are frequently ruled by demons; one of the difficulties may be that the major overhaul to demons in recent versions has made them far more interesting for adventurers, but perhaps less effective at leading their goblin subjects to war.  Looking ahead, one logical way of controlling things is to have goblins act (attack) in a more "video game" like fashion, without regard for politics or logistics, unlike other races; this would allow players to generate worlds and pick locations with more or less such attacks as fits their preferences.  Of course, purely human politics created, and purely realistic logistics supported, the so-called "Hundred Years' War" period.  By all accounts it was a terrible time to be (briefly) alive; but fairly interesting from a military history standpoint, and the earlier parts of it are period for DF. 

One fascinating "end game" scenario might be that if you have a demon-ruled goblin civ nearby when you breach HFS, they might drop everything to besiege you, led by their dark ruler in person. 
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #209 on: December 18, 2014, 03:01:43 pm »

Goblins should obey the same rules as everyone else for attacks, with politics and logistics, as they do now. They should not just hurl themselves at the player's fort again and again and keep on dying like they used to.

Goblins not eating or drinking is because of their demonic possession, though I think they should need to, and devour the flesh of sentient beings. Having them attack without logistics would ruin and unbalance the world simulation, something Toady tries hard to avoid. DF is not a tower defence game.

The Hundred Years' War was an on-off conflict, but of course England and France (and many other humans) fought a lot over the years. No simulation breaking is necessary to create prolonged states of war.

Was that a comment on mediaeval life expectancy? The low average age of death was because of huge numbers of children dying; mediaeval adults usually lived to about 60 or so, and many lived longer than that, since even this figure is an average including childbirth deaths, plague and so on. Remember that even the ancient Bible speaks of men living for "three score and ten" (70) years.

Wrestling was immensely useful in individual, armoured fighting, and should be shown as such in DF. Half swording and stabbing through gaps in the armour should also be added.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 03:03:30 pm by Urist Uristurister »
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On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.
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