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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Magmacube_tr]

-snip-

Yeah yeah yeah, I am not getting conned by a lowly desert god.

Yahweh can shove it up his ass.

[Strongpoint]

That argument that (all of) the Bible is "due to imagination" does not pass scientific muster: the gospels, at least, are almost universally accepted as being legitimate first- or second-hand accounts of some events in the early first century.

Gospels are still fiction, loosely based on some real events but still fiction. Just like Three Musketeers is fiction even if it has a lot of real people and events in it. Difference that people don't really think that it what happened and Dumas not claimed that he knows the truth from God or something. Note that the plot of Three Musketeers is far more believable than plot of the Bible because it doesn't have magic.



Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterwards he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written, ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6saying to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and ‘On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! for it is written, ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.’” Then the devil left him, and suddenly angels came and waited on him. 

How is stuff like this not fiction? How can it be a first-hand or second-hand account? It would make some sense if it wrote: "Jesus said that he had the following encounter with the Satan" but it is not what the text says.

It is either a divine inspiration or... imagination of someone from whom Gospels copied

[dragdeler]

First or second hand accounts? Even the shills agree that the oldest couldn't have been earlier than 35 years after jayjays death. The others came way later and plagiarized a lot.  A christian scholar swearing by his sources is functionnally no different salesman handing you a pamphlet: both inherently untrustworthy.

[Maximum Spin]

That argument that (all of) the Bible is "due to imagination" does not pass scientific muster: the gospels, at least, are almost universally accepted as being legitimate first- or second-hand accounts of some events in the early first century.

Not even close. The gospels are definitely not historical accounts, as we can trace the history of their development. Real historical accounts don't gain details over future editing, much less contradictory ones.

[Strongpoint]

I also never understood the criteria for how they determined which Gospels are true and which are non-canonical aka made-up.

It is so sad that the Infancy Gospel of Thomas didn't make it because some ancient nerds decided that it was not canon enough...

Child Jesus kicked ass in this one.



_________

And if we speak fiction or non-fiction. I know a trick. If a story contains magic you can safely conclude that it IS fiction.

[McTraveller]

There's tons of information online and in bookstores and libraries about how the canon was decided, none of it is really secret.  Even Wikipedia is pretty "traditional" in its explanations of why Thomas isn't in the canon, for instance (the author shouldn't have copied so many coptic texts, basically).

[EuchreJack]

-snip-

Yeah yeah yeah, I am not getting conned by a lowly desert god.

Yahweh can shove it up his ass.

This "lowly desert god" seems to still be active:

https://amp.theguardian.com/culture/2023/aug/28/burning-man-protest-climate-change-environment

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/burning-man-attendees-advised-shelter-place-conserve-food-water-due-he-rcna103127

[Magmacube_tr]

This "lowly desert god" seems to still be active:

What do you mean? What do those two things have to do with Yahweh?

[MaxTheFox]

[Maximum Spin]

I think EuchreJack's point is that any god who would do that to Burning Man deserves our utmost respect, which I have to admit is fair.

[Frumple]

Maybe, but there's like... dozens. Of gods that would do something like that, if they existed and got the whim to.

If there actually are any around, there's no goddamn way to tell which one it is. Bonus points, some of them supposedly get pissy if you guess wrong, so have fun with that one, ha.

[Strongpoint]

There's tons of information online and in bookstores and libraries about how the canon was decided, none of it is really secret.  Even Wikipedia is pretty "traditional" in its explanations of why Thomas isn't in the canon, for instance (the author shouldn't have copied so many coptic texts, basically).

Good thing that 4 dudes copied fewer unrelated myths to their Gospels. What was the threshold?

[Maximum Spin]

Maybe, but there's like... dozens. Of gods that would do something like that, if they existed and got the whim to.

If there actually are any around, there's no goddamn way to tell which one it is. Bonus points, some of them supposedly get pissy if you guess wrong, so have fun with that one, ha.

Yes, that's the rub. Logically, given the region, the obvious candidate is Coyote. You certainly can't fault that for plausibility.

[Egan_BW]

The greatest trick that cyote ever pulled was convincing the world that he was yahweh

[Strongpoint]

I have started noticing an interesting trend among Christians here, in Ukraine:

They envy and admire Muslims. I mean stuff like: " They actually pray regularly. Their mosques are always full. Their women are modest and chaste. They don't allow sodomy run rampart"  and similar BS. Is this a local phenomenon or do Christians in your countries have similar sentiments?