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[Silverthrone]

I would still favour getting a few enthusiasts together, code up a decent game type of choice and making... Gallbout: The Long March or something similar. Something that strikes the same beats and is similar enough to capture the same spirit, but a new and original^tm IP. Bethesda seems terribly unsure (or perhaps far too sure) of what to do with the series, and it is very unlikely that part of it will ever be set abroad.

[Krevsin]

also you do know that you can do unique stories within Fallout's america without involving the BoS or have it look exactly the same as the previous games right?

I know... But while setting it in Japan would force Bethesda to do something new...

And lets face it... Bethesda has sort of made it clear what they want to do with the franchise... Keep it the exact same.

Which is kind of funny because the original scrapped Fallout 3, while still in the USA, was also different taking place in endless deserts and utilizing a bit more technology then the previous games. They did this crazy thing and advanced the setting, did something different, and what have you.

I know right. Bethesda doesn't like doing that with their games. Because they're Bethesda. Elder Scrolls is in a perpetual state of medieval stasis, with the polities and setting changing on a per-need basis but never too much. Only to the point that they fit into the narrative they have in mind, because heaven forbid they'd have to step out of their comfort zone or enforce a canon that might displease some of their fandom. People don't like change, they just want more of the same thing and that's exactly where both Elder Scrolls and Fallout are headed lore-wise.

I fully expect the next Fallout game to take an undetermined-yet-roughly-200-years-after-2077 setting and feature SPEHS MUREEN BoS in a new locale, complete with tons of non-descript raider gangs who are just there to be cannon fodder and Super Mutants somehow and expect Beth to double down on big setpieces that do not gel well story-wise with their prefered format of freeform exploration, making the entire game's narrative feel disjointed and shallow.

Do I sound bitter? Because I am.

But anyway. Exploring other countries would be a fun DLC thing but wouldn't really work in a mainline game for the reasons I've outlined in my previous post.

[Iceblaster]

Why should raiders be fully fleshed out and named? Fallout 4 already has the raiders have ambient dialogue and terminals implying power struggles. Should each raider be fully voiced with a quest involving them and their dead wife? Because I see no way to have raiders be more than cannon fodder. They were like that in NV, 1 and 2, so it's not a new thing to Bethesda.

[Neonivek]

Because I see no way to have raiders be more than cannon fodder.

Damn Mongols!

[Krevsin]

I don't want all the raiders to be fully fleshed out and named. I want them to have an outwardly visible identity and I liked what Fallout 4 started with the terminals.

What I would like however is for the established gangs to look distinct. Not by using new assets but rather by assigning them names (Mirelurks Raider or thereabouts) and some assets to some specific raider groups (say that the Mirelurks always wear long johns and metal and use mostly hunting rifles and 10mm pistols). Just like New Vegas did, where most raiders that you meet are members of named gangs (Vipers, Powder Gangers, The Fiends, Khans, Scorpions and Jackals, respectively) with generic raiders being more the exception than the rule.

Again, they don't have to all have names and personalities or even specially made assets, just at least a semblance of outwardly visible identities.

So, gang names, a list of specific assets they usually spawn with and specific parts of the map they spawn in.

And I know Bethesda can do this because what I'm describing is word for word The Gunners, the Saugus ironworks guys and with Automatron the Rust Devils (only they get special assets because they've been added by the DLC). Bethesda can put the effort in when it's about a DLC or a quest or an excuse for there to be high-level raider equivalents.

They just can't be arsed to apply that to the rest of the world and make it feel more real. Gangs and tribes like having a uniform of sorts. It's how human mentality works. You don't just join a gang and be told "just wear whatever", you wear gang-approved colours and clothing items.

fakedit: this is basically the thing the Nuka World DLC gets so right.

[Silverthrone]

There is one thing to consider, though. I do not think that the Elder Scrolls would benefit hugely from updating to a different time era. It would be an exorcise for its own sake, most likely, something to patter about during presentations. And it would have to be done carefully, lest they shoot themselves in the foot and reach for the steam punk jar, because anything approaching what could be labeled steam punk in this day and age will have an uphill struggle, no matter its merits.

Fallout, on the other hand, would really benefit from a status update in the setting. Much like how Fallout 2 was edging away from the apocalypse and well into the post-apocalypse. That is a bit of the shame with Fallout 4. It's a fairly good little game, but it does represent a stagnation I do not like to see. That would certainly benefit from taking on a different sort of beat.
I remember when I played Fallout: New Vegas for the first time, and thought that it felt more like Darfur, without motor vehicles and bigger wildlife. Since I am not a huge fan of the series, I have no real 'right' to say what I think Fallout should be, but the New Vegas model is far more compelling.
The era of hunting for tinned meat to survive in the ruins is well-explored and well gone by. A new world, with new societies and new challenges has grown. That is where the focus ought to be, that is where the series could do its best.

And if the more immediate post-apoc tin gathering is what appeals the studio and the producers more, I wish they could at least set it in an earlier part of the timeline. A prequel, even if it did mean having to surrender the Brotherhood. It'd be best for everyone.

Why should raiders be fully fleshed out and named? Fallout 4 already has the raiders have ambient dialogue and terminals implying power struggles. Should each raider be fully voiced with a quest involving them and their dead wife? Because I see no way to have raiders be more than cannon fodder. They were like that in NV, 1 and 2, so it's not a new thing to Bethesda.

It depends. I rather liked the Fiends from New Vegas. They were the same raider meat and potatoes as usual, with drugs, violence and cruelty. However, they had been far better integrated with the setting and plot. They relied on drugs, and they bought them from the Khans. There were proof, and surviving victims, of their excesses in the surroundings. While the individual Fiend was cannon fodder, they had a voiced and (reasonably) quested leader, with ambitions and contacts out in the Mojave that tied him and his troops to the overarching plot.
Also, much like the Legion, the game made a very good case for the player to dislike and fight them, through quests and dialogue. Strictly speaking, Bethy-brand raiders are brought accross that way, as well, but the Fiends had a name, place and agenda, in a way that made them feel more engaging than the fairly random gangs in the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth raiders felt like an occasional pest control service. Meanwhile, taking it upon myself to destroy the Fiends and bring law to the area felt much more fulfilling.

[Krevsin]

There is one thing to consider, though. I do not think that the Elder Scrolls would benefit hugely from updating to a different time era. It would be an exorcise for its own sake, most likely, something to patter about during presentations. And it would have to be done carefully, lest they shoot themselves in the foot and reach for the steam punk jar, because anything approaching what could be labeled steam punk in this day and age will have an uphill struggle, no matter its merits.

Well you don't need tech advancement, maybe just some political advancement. Empire breaks up, successor states war for a bit and then new polities grow upon its ashes with their own problems.

Like Elder Scrolls Online. But good.

[Neonivek]

There is one thing to consider, though. I do not think that the Elder Scrolls would benefit hugely from updating to a different time era. It would be an exorcise for its own sake, most likely, something to patter about during presentations. And it would have to be done carefully, lest they shoot themselves in the foot and reach for the steam punk jar, because anything approaching what could be labeled steam punk in this day and age will have an uphill struggle, no matter its merits.

Well you don't need tech advancement, maybe just some political advancement. Empire breaks up, successor states war for a bit and then new polities grow upon its ashes with their own problems.

Like Elder Scrolls Online. But good.

What is funny is that Skyrim almost forces there to be some sort of setting advancement...

But I bet absolutely nothing actually changes next game

[Silverthrone]

But that is one of the main beats in Skyrim, with the Empire falling apart, the new Emperors unable to fill the shoes of the old Septim line, the Thalmor hard at work at rewriting reality, et cetera. That is a rather significant change in the setting, albeit one that could have been modelled better in game terms. The setting is not static, not to my mind, but the problem it shares with their Fallout titles is the integration into the various plots and parts of the game. Indeed, if there is one thing that Bethesda ought to consider, it is taking the plunge to dare inconvenience the player slightly to reinforce the plot and the setting now and then.

[Krevsin]

Just like Morrowind, which also had a plot that affected the greater state of the empire and world at large and then just never came up again. 

The polities in ES are what the plot needs them to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Silverthrone]

But... But..! Glorious Saint Morrowind..! When everything was perfect...

I'm not quite so sure. But I think we will know whenever the next installment rolls around. Nonetheless, if that is the case, I cannot complain if it is at least modelled and do serve the plot it has been steered towards.
As for Fallout, I suppose about the only thing that will significantly change, and could be a spot to speculate on, is what ruined major city in the United States the series will visit next?

[Jimmy]

What's weird is that they gave the synths capacity for desire, emotion, and other things generally inconducive to indentured servitude, then made them indentured servants.

I think it's unintentional and unnoticed, several Institute NPCs say that Synths do not feel or think, just simulate doing so.

When freshly made or mind wiped they have no personality beyond whats' programmed into the mechanical bits of their brain, but they seem to develop from there like a child would, piecing things together from experiences and memories.

They were made to learn and emulate humans, it's necessary for them to learn complex tasks, combat skills and infiltrate societies. The Institute just doesn't think they've gotten past the simulation stage of things, which is actually kind of reasonable, when you can program something to feel or not feel emotions, to think of others as family members despite being wholly unrelated, create an entire fake mind even, why should you think any of the things they claim to feel are more than just glitches in the programming?

I'll stick the rest of my reply behind spoilers since it deals a fair bit with the big reveal when you finally reach the Institute in the game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What's important to remember with the Gen 3 synths is that they are, in fact, all derived from your son Shaun, or as he's now known, Father.

The whole reason the Institute sent Kellogg to kidnap Shaun was so they could use his perfectly preserved DNA as a template to manufacture the Gen 3 synths. The biological component of the Gen 3 is in fact based more or less completely on your son's DNA.

Where it gets really interesting is when you consider the fact that Shaun is, in my opinion, completely mental. He is fixated and obsessed with the Gen 3 model, despite the obvious flaws in their design. And can you really blame him? They are literally a part of him.

So we have a Gen 3 synth derived from the DNA of a crazy guy, quite possibly including some defective genome marker that induces paranoia and obsession. Sorry, the Gen 3 model was a failure by unavoidable design given that the base template was flawed. Unfortunately, that flawed template also happened to gain control of the Institute, and their own megalomania resulted in them continuing Gen 3 production and then devoting ever increasing resources towards controlling the damage they caused instead of scrapping the project and drafting a new model.

In my opinion, a Sole Survivor at the helm of the Institute has the power to turn the Commonwealth around and create a nation of prosperity and peace from it. Gen 1 and Gen 2 synths mass produced and scouring the wastes of danger sounds pretty good for humanity. Super Mutants are a dying breed in the Commonwealth since there's no open sources of FEV, at least according to what's shown in the game. Feral ghouls are a pretty easy problem to solve if you hire a bunch of ghoul mercs from Goodneighbor to go in with tommy guns blazing wherever they're nesting. Overall, I think an Institute ending to Fallout 4 is a damned sight better than a bunch of guerrillas without a cause, a half-trained farmer militia or a bunch of power-armor cowboys who would blow advanced technology up just to stop other people having it. The BoS is honestly the only other faction worth considering for leadership of the Commonwealth, but to put it bluntly they're essentially a foreign power conquering the land by force of arms.

[Silverthrone]

I thought along those lines, as well, when I decided to side with the Institute. Another reason was because I had grown fed up with the settlement building. I felt less like a warlord and more like an on-call nanny, trying to keep those damn things running.

I do wish there was a way to convince them to stop the advanced synth production, and focus on the more reliable, earlier models. They do not seem much worse at fighting than the Gen 3 ones, and are likely quite a lot cheaper. None of the ethics, less of the suspicion, no reason for the Railroad to be more cross, with maybe a small loss in efficiency. But the silver pyjamas people seem quite set in their way...

[Jimmy]

That's all thanks to Father. If only you could wait for the old geezer to kick the bucket before the events of Bunker Hill, the ending would probably come out a lot happier. Sadly the diseased sack of psychopath is scripted to live just long enough to screw everything up royally before fucking off this mortal coil in his space-coffin.

[Glloyd]

Just like Morrowind, which also had a plot that affected the greater state of the empire and world at large and then just never came up again. 

The polities in ES are what the plot needs them to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or fucking Daggerfall, in which they made all endings canon because fuck sense.