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Author Topic: Can I clothe my gremlins?  (Read 3325 times)

PatrikLundell

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Can I clothe my gremlins?
« on: February 02, 2016, 05:19:05 pm »

Thanks to Dwarf Therapist I can now see my gremlins are embarrassed about being naked. However, the clothes making options do not provide gremlin size in the list, so I'm wondering what the smallest animal peoples are, and whether those clothes as small enough to be used by the very tiny gremlins?
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martinuzz

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 06:09:44 pm »

Dunno. I'd go for kobold. They are dog sized creatures, right? A gremlin is slightly larger than a jack russel lol.

On the topic of gremlins. Did anyone ever try submerging gremlins in water?
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 06:10:40 pm »

Dunno. I'd go for kobold. They are dog sized creatures, right? A gremlin is slightly larger than a jack russel lol.

On the topic of gremlins. Did anyone ever try submerging gremlins in water?
Or using them as hyper-accurate (by DF standards) clocks?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 04:25:10 am »

@martinuzz: My gremlins have built walls in my second double-slit aquifer penetration without multiplying explosively. They're not multiplying naturally either, on account of all of them being female (and two out of three are non reproductive on top of that).
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Bumber

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 04:41:38 pm »

@martinuzz: My gremlins have built walls in my second double-slit aquifer penetration without multiplying explosively. They're not multiplying naturally either, on account of all of them being female (and two out of three are non reproductive on top of that).
Maybe they were wearing protection during the penetration?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 03:48:37 am »

They may very well have worn amulets... They have picked up various trinkets, and are occasionally "wearing" gremlin tears.

Edit: I tried making kobold clothes, as that's the smallest size (20 liters vs the gremlin's 10 liters) available according to the wiki (which doesn't have size for the new animal people yet), but they weren't rushing to pick them up, so I guess clothing made for something twice as large isn't small enough.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 11:13:20 am by PatrikLundell »
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Dozeb˘m Lolumzalýs

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 04:04:10 pm »

@martinuzz: My gremlins have built walls in my second double-slit aquifer penetration without multiplying explosively. They're not multiplying naturally either, on account of all of them being female (and two out of three are non reproductive on top of that).
Maybe they were wearing protection during the penetration?
Dirty mind. Hehehe.

Edit: Hmm, but they didn't have any protection! No clothes, you see.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 04:25:20 pm by jwoodward48df »
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Salmeuk

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 11:50:55 pm »

How would one go about procuring an amiable gremlin? I once managed to trap twenty or so, and I couldn't think of a good use, so I fed them to my giant jaguars.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 04:59:37 am »

@jwoodward48df: I did consider the "dirty mind" interpretation and decided not to bite on it at the time. Clothing offers no "dirty mind" protection though, it's almost as useless as the Zuma kind.

@Salmeuk: You build gremlin traps and then train the buggers. They're a pain, actually, because you can't keep them caged because they'll go insane from lack of sleep, and you can't keep them pastured because they need to eat and drink. Thus, you need to let them run free (after the initial caged training) and make sure you have enough trainers to ensure they're trained in a timely manner. They pass through animal locked doors to get to training, and leave the doors as "claimed by enemies" afterwards. Their behavior and usage has changed from 0.40.24 to 0.42.X, and I'll describe the 0.42.X one below.

Once trained gremlins perform odd jobs about the same way as children do, but a bit more often. They also socialize, pray, read, etc. They claim a visitor's room from the inn, and eat and drink (using a goblet) as they please, and retraining is generally automatic. Eventually they'll make a petition to become a member of your fortress, and that's where they become a pain (provided you accept). After they've become citizens they perform unskilled labors (haul, clean, build,...), and claim a regular room, leaving the inn one. Using vanilla DF you have no further control over them, nor can you see their thoughts, but the current Dwarf Therapist actually allows you to both control their labors as if they were dwarves, and to see their thoughts, preferences, etc.
Despite them being citizens, they STILL have to be retrained regularly, and here's where the pain comes in: they usually no longer come to training on their own accord, but just continues working on one task after the other, leaving the trainer to thirst and hunger. If there's no work available they will go to training, though. The way I work around the training issue is to have a small training zone (I used to have multiple, but that caused trouble) and have a burrow covering that one. When a gremlin needs retraining I assign the gremlin to the burrow and release it afterwards. I try to time the burrowing so it's not hauling a heavy item (like a metal bar), so it will take an eternity for it to reach the trainer. To compound the issue, civilian alerts don't play nice with individual burrows, since the civilian alert allows the burrowee to roam freely within the civilian alert burrow, rendering the individual burrow totally ineffective.
I've considered to use DT to set gremlins as animal trainers so they can train each other, just because that's silly.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 09:28:02 am »

Couldn't you apply a goblin citizen/resident to training the gremlins instead? Seeming as they have nearly no requirements that would hold them back, in addition to highest memory values (enough to probably outweigh the bad empathy values) just one person responsible for a small gremlin population (as well as extermination, butchery, culling and processing for trade goods via applied goblin ethics)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 04:42:38 pm »

No. I've had a single visitor if 30 years, and that was a human. Goblins came in hello/good by sieges early on, but I haven't seen them since the pop passed 20 (the attack threshold), and I've run out of undead.
Gremlin citizens can be butchered by dwarves, since they're "animals".
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 06:04:27 pm »

No. I've had a single visitor if 30 years, and that was a human. Goblins came in hello/good by sieges early on, but I haven't seen them since the pop passed 20 (the attack threshold), and I've run out of undead.
Gremlin citizens can be butchered by dwarves, since they're "animals".

Couldn't you apply a goblin citizen/resident

You appear to have misunderstood. If standards in your world meet the requirements (goblins living in other civs particularly) they can take a tavern room and eventually apply for citizenship via the tavern guest system. Therefore becoming a fully fledged member of your fortress.

By very nature of their entity, goblins aren't restricted by dwarven ethical codes, meaning they will not be disgusted with killing sentients and will happily butcher, eat and wear sentient goods, whereas regular dwarves will not. Using immigrant goblin workers allows you to navigate around some difficult and gristly jobs. Setting these or indeed any goblins to a animal task is easy because of the high memory stats they exhibit (though empathy is lacking)
Quote from: extracted from the EVIL goblin entity raws

[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]

   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:PERSONAL_MATTER]

[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]

However they don't exactly share the same traits as regular goblins as supposedly being able to train [Evil] aligned animals to my knowledge (not that i've explicitly tried to, though there are test subjects to be used in the caverns such as resident trolls/other 'evil' animals) A gossipy tidbit of information i heard once was that (though i can't see any evidence looking through current DF2014 entity raws) the goblins used to have all the animal training revolve around a central general historical figure nobleman, which when dead would immediately stop the taming of animals because they were irreplaceable. (i've spent a good amount of time digging around for that reference im yet to find and remember seeing on the wiki)

Remarkably this shares resemblance to old dungeon keeper nobleman behaviour which also used to be responsible for the taming of [pet- exotic] creatures.
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khearn

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 06:15:41 pm »

He can't have a goblin take a tavern room, if none ever come to visit his fort. And the only visitor he's ever had wasn't a goblin.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 06:22:20 pm »

He can't have a goblin take a tavern room, if none ever come to visit his fort. And the only visitor he's ever had wasn't a goblin.

Thats fair enough. He's just gotten unlucky with the world generation and the distribution of people that's all, its not guaranteed for a goblin to settle in a neighboring friendly civ (much like the distribution of animal-people types across civs). I was just stating the conditions and advantages of having one on board.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I clothe my gremlins?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 05:17:56 am »

Well, I'm actually somewhat surprised at the lack of visitors, since I think both humans and elves are doing fairly well (for my world standards), but I don't know how large these civs have to be to start sending out visitors, nor if there's a shorter visitor distance than there is for trade. This single visitor is the only one I've ever gotten in a pocket world, though.
Neither humans nor elves should be under much of a threat, since I killed off the titan (ushering in the age of the goblin) and both civs are at peace with the goblins (although I don't know about the other goblin civs).
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