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Author Topic: Brexit! Conversation Continued  (Read 182563 times)

Radio Controlled

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #930 on: December 04, 2016, 05:33:13 pm »

Oh my god, next generation sequencing data analysis for epigenetic markers in one package? What horrors will the British invent next?
Derp, that's why you never work late at night on this kind of shit. Link fixed.
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Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
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21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #931 on: December 06, 2016, 05:23:27 pm »

Jesus Christ Nick stop biting the ez b8
It seems even in 2016 sadness has followed him

Starver

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #932 on: December 06, 2016, 06:40:00 pm »

I'm going to regret asking for a plain english explanation of what I'd find on that youtube link, no doubt...
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #933 on: December 06, 2016, 06:50:31 pm »

I'm going to regret asking for a plain english explanation of what I'd find on that youtube link, no doubt...
Nick Clegg is a politician and former leader of the liberal democrat party, he was invited to talk about Brexit in light of the Richmond by-election. In this interview he gets absolutely roasted. I need not go into detail as the slaughter is quick, Nick managing to blunder into every single one of the interviewer's master b8

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #934 on: December 06, 2016, 06:57:00 pm »

Ah, that Nick. So, it's probably the Andrew Neil interview.  That was Sunday, though.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #935 on: December 06, 2016, 06:58:45 pm »

Nick is my sidewaifu, I must post it

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #936 on: December 06, 2016, 07:19:55 pm »

Not seeing it that way. He clearly articulated his position and held his own against a hostile interviewer.

The more interesting news story behind this is Zac Goldsmith getting blown out by the Lib Dems in his byelection from a 23k majority. The Lib Dems were campaigning hard against Brexit and it seems to have paid off big for them.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #937 on: December 06, 2016, 08:22:34 pm »

Not seeing it that way. He clearly articulated his position and held his own against a hostile interviewer.
If he was Cameron trying to win the 2015 GE then holding his own would've been enough, he needed to really dominate the interview and not be defeated by his own soundbites. The bits where they just played what he said then, versus now - killer bait

The more interesting news story behind this is Zac Goldsmith getting blown out by the Lib Dems in his byelection from a 23k majority. The Lib Dems were campaigning hard against Brexit and it seems to have paid off big for them.
Sadly the Libdems are still useless and this victory hasn't made much difference for them, but certainly it is possible under new leadership and in the upcoming general election for the libdems to claw power away from disaffected Tory and Labour voters to become relevant again. Work in progress still, but certainly a good sign for potential libdem revanchism

The by-election certainly is amazing news, so much going on in one little event. Despite the event being so little, it will be like a pebble thrown in a pond, causing ripples far away. I think people will not be too bothered by this news because it seems mostly a local issue, but appearances are deceiving :D

Background to all of this is Richmond, a borough I reckon most famous for Richmond sausages, which really are bloody good sausages. Within Richmond are some of the best houses and open spaces in all of London, lending it to some of the best living standards of all London - you're really lucky if you live there, especially in the vicinity of world famous stuff like Kew Gardens. It's a major part of the green belt around London, which is stuff left to be green with life to break up a sea of concrete, steel and glass, that would otherwise spread over the country!
Richmond Park is one of the electoral divisions within the borough, and this is the one Zac Goldsmith contended. Zac's previously won two general elections there, in 2010 and 2015, and performed exceptionally well (notably being a Tory who increased his voteshare in London, notoriously anti-Tory). Demographically Richmond Park is dominated by wealthy over-40s with a high standard of living, who usually vote Tory or Libdem, and young professionals living in high-end rental accommodation who usually vote Labour, Libdem or Greens. Wealthy professionals and wealthy young professionals were amongst some of the demographics that were fiercest supporters of Remain in the 2015 British Exit of the EU referendum. Full rundown on the numbers here. Very posh area

I don't know much about Zac Goldsmith as he's on the wrong side of London to me, but from what I gathered during his bid for Mayorship of London he's a really wealthy Tory on the liberal side of right who has a strong and extensive network of friends, acquaintances and allies, who otherwise prefers to attack his opponents with dog-whistles or remain away from the spotlight. He supported Brexit when running for Mayor of London which was an astounding move (really, not one I expected) and lost to Sadiq Khan. As to where his views on the EU lie, from the things I've seen of him he's never seemed as eager to break apart the EU as say Bojo, but looking at his voting record, I'd say the lack of overt political display is a sign of him being a London MP (needs to be discrete going against the grain of London opinions) than of sincere belief. From this I reckon it is unlikely that Zac Goldsmith and Theresa May had a disagreement on the course of Brexit, and is genuinely about the Heathrow expansion.

Background to the Heathrow vs Gatwick expansion is in brief, a conflict between which airports to expand in order to increase London's air infrastructure. Opposition to the airport expansions has basically been about those who will lose homes to compulsory purchasing, those who don't want increased air pollution or noise pollution (both of which may drive down the value of their houses and impact their quality of life). Theresa May allowed MPs to challenge her on this (even Boris for example) but Zac raised the stakes by pledging to resign from the party if May pressed on regardless.

The whole gambit was that by resigning, Zac could cause no shortage of headaches for the Tory party. He had a comfortable hold on his seat, so would easily be able to defeat any Tory challenger and humiliate the party, then continue to harry it as an Independent until the airport expansion was canceled. May called his threat and he rather courageously carried through, which is where it all goes downhill for him.
For starters the Tory party fielded no candidate of their own. This meant Zac Goldsmith had no Tory to point to to differentiate himself, making him stand-in as a de facto Tory with none of the support of the party. The reason the Tories did this was because if they fielded a candidate of their own, they would be humiliated either by Zac or by the Libdems, thus they simply decided not to play the game. Labour likewise made their moves by supporting the Libdems using Zac as the Tory stand-in to deliver a joint message, as Libdems and Labour are allied on the issue of the EU (and if the Supreme court appeal is not successful, then the pro-EU coalition needs to narrow any possible majority May holds - every one seat counts).

This ES article is bretty nice in summing up the framing as the by-election unfolded:
As Simon Jenkins noted yesterday, the two principal candidates have framed this constituency vote as a referendum by proxy — though they differ on what is at stake. Goldsmith declares that the by-election is all about Heathrow expansion, and that he alone represents “the best bet at seeing off this monstrosity”. Olney has called upon the leafy suburb to rally against Brexit and seize its “one-off chance to send a message to the new government on the direction of the country”.
Neither claim withstands scrutiny. Those canvassers to whom I have spoken suggest that education and health remain the priorities of most voters. They also report electoral weariness: this is the fourth time that constituents have been summoned to the polling stations since May 2015 (general election, mayoral contest, EU referendum and now by-election). The grandiosity of the candidates’ claims is not reflected on the ground: neither Heathrow’s third runway nor Brexit will be thwarted by tomorrow’s outcome.
Which is not to say that this by-election is without deep significance. Much more important than the campaigns to nationalise an essentially local contest are the circumstances surrounding Goldsmith’s resignation, and their broader implications.
Interestingly the implications most significant are not in Brexit or Heathrow for whom not much has changed, but with May's authority. As it stands May has the country's future in her hands, so she must act sagely

Quote
Parliament wants its say and will not be a pushover. All of which means May needs every ounce of authority at her disposal. The Remainers must believe that she will be the Malcolm X of Brexit: by any means necessary.
The ruthlessness with which she purged the Cameron Cabinet certainly conveyed a clear message. But that message has been weakened by her decision to suspend ministerial collective responsibility over Heathrow and — to return to tomorrow’s by-election — her appeasement of Goldsmith. In both cases, the PM showed that, in certain circumstances, she is prepared to back down for a quiet life.
Would it have been worth risking defeat in Richmond in order to send a broader signal that she means business? Absolutely. There are greater struggles ahead which will be decided by power of personality as much as tight parliamentary arithmetic. The time has come for May to decide if she is the heir to Margaret Thatcher — or just another John Major.
Pragmatically it is very clever to use the Libdem's resources to defeat Zac without a single penny of the Tory party's resources having been used, but it is possible that the ES is right - wasted pennies spent challenging Zac may have not been so wasted in proving May is resolute. This will be nothing more than a footnote if her appeal in supreme court is successful, if it isn't, then it has to be general election, and her leadership will be pivotal in deciding nearly everything versus so many bold populists from Corbyn to Farage

Leafsnail

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #938 on: December 06, 2016, 09:15:06 pm »

I am very glad Zac Goldsmith in particular got kicked out after his disgraceful campaign against Sadiq Khan. I imagine that may have convinced people who normally vote Labour to make a tactical vote for the Lib Dems to help kick him out.

The fact that Labour was prepared to largely lie down in this could also be a big deal. A Lib/Lab pact would dramatically shift a lot of constituencies against the Conservatives, which makes calling an early election a lot riskier for May.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #939 on: December 07, 2016, 07:44:45 am »

Yeah a Lab/Lib pact could be particularly interesting, and especially potent
If they could coordinate like this again then all the constituencies where Labour would be hurt by loss of liberals would just go to Libdem, covering one major area of weakness. Meanwhile May does not have any such arrangements with UKIP which could split the Tory vote in such a GE

Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #940 on: December 07, 2016, 03:31:30 pm »

There has been some more research into who was more likely to vote to remain or leave, apparently.
Pretty dank, but I wonder if there is a version for people who want to understand why you'd vote Remain

Starver

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #941 on: December 07, 2016, 03:47:01 pm »

Remind me again of the advantages of Leaving..?
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martinuzz

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #942 on: December 07, 2016, 04:01:19 pm »

Apparently, on a visit to Bahrein, May said something about a 'red-white-blue Brexit'

wut, she planning on having the UK join the Netherlands? I'm all for it as long as that means we get rid of the euro. I'm sure we can work out fishing rights.
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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #943 on: December 07, 2016, 04:25:02 pm »

It could also be referring to the red, white, and blue on this thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Make Brexit British again!
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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #944 on: December 07, 2016, 04:28:21 pm »

Maybe it's one of Russia, North Korea, Republic of China, Nepal, Panama...
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