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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 377931 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4335 on: August 25, 2017, 05:58:30 pm »

@Andrea: If we assume there's a direct correlation between shell size and fabrication time, then it'd still take less than 5 seconds for the CAF to work in the Lightning turret. (AS-R1 is ~12mm, Lightning turret is 20mm). I definitely feel like that's still better than breech-loading. And as for the AS-R1, the reasons for not using it are told to be "increase in cost and lack of diversified ammo types", both of which shouldn't be a problem.

Duel Report
Sure, it may be 1311 words, but evicted did say "epic" and not "concise".


EDIT: Updated some things.

Since both revisions are useless without this, here's a design for a working CAF.

Future Design: CAF2
The CAF2 utilizes the revisions before it to make something truly great.

Spoiler: Fluff (click to show/hide)

Specialization - Currently the fabrication unit is designed specifically to accept different designs heavily varying in size/complexity. So if we hardwire the design in during fabrication so we just have one small circuit, we should be able to greatly increase power efficiency (and thus expense), size, weight, etc., and speed.
Weightite - Use our knowledge with modifying crystal to make a heavier form of crystal optimized for shells; call it "Weightite". Should hopefully be better than metal, but just "as good as metal" is somewhat acceptable.
Special Ammunition (Blastshells) - Make a crystal design for Blastshells to plug into the HA1 CAF2s. Should be easy. We already can make crystal circuitry + just upgraded the precision of crystal fabrication. We already make Magegems out of crystal. And we're already switching the metal to Weightite.

TL;DR: Specialize the CAF2 to hardwire in the crystal design and thus heavily reduce complexity and therefore increasing speed+power efficiency+weight/size+expense. Increase density of crystal for Weightite, and start making Blastshells out of 100% crystal so we can plug them into the HA1 CAF2s.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 06:23:55 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4336 on: August 25, 2017, 06:28:57 pm »

Quote from: Duel Report
2 - Chiefwaffles' Duel Report: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
Only thing that needs changing is the title.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4337 on: August 25, 2017, 06:30:10 pm »

I'm sorry, do you not like "All Quiet in the Taiga Front"?
It may be a placeholder name, but by god it's a good placeholder name.

But if you have a better name, be my guest.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4338 on: August 25, 2017, 06:40:22 pm »

Since the revision gave us better aerodynamics in Crystal structures, does that mean that larger Crystal structures would benefit from the aerodynamics as well? * cough* like the lightning * cough cough**

All quiet on the taiga front is a great name imo.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4339 on: August 25, 2017, 06:49:38 pm »

I'm sorry, do you not like "All Quiet in the Taiga Front"?
It may be a placeholder name, but by god it's a good placeholder name.

But if you have a better name, be my guest.
How about... "Sacrifice".

Okay fine I have no idea what to name it, really.
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4340 on: August 25, 2017, 09:00:30 pm »

Since the revision gave us better aerodynamics in Crystal structures, does that mean that larger Crystal structures would benefit from the aerodynamics as well? * cough* like the lightning * cough cough**

All quiet on the taiga front is a great name imo.

Or we can just make a rocket-plane.  It would use vastly less energy to have a plane instead of a flying saucer, resulting in a lighter reactor, faster more maneuverable aircraft and it could still fly forever.  Basically go from UFO to aircraft.

If we need to push back the taiga directly I think rocket-shells would be a good idea next turn...

Actually, we could just make missile pods at this point.  Aerodynamic, with a constant thrust from our reactor-blast engine, made out of steel for now (to keep the costs low on not needing to make an entirely new crystal type) with an Honest Flight guidance system (the guidance system is the only real innovation, everything else is just strapping existing parts together).

We could put a few missiles on the Lightning, two on our IFV (and fix the chassis) and a TON of them on our boats.  Basically it would upgrade our ships to missile cruisers... which.. would make it very worth it.

Edit: we can make weightite on a revision next turn and then reduce the expense of the honest strike system, then on turn +2 we can make a full machine gun by combining all our stuff into a single design.  The machine gun can go on our UFO, our IFV and be used in fixed emplacements by infantry.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 09:03:49 pm by VoidSlayer »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4341 on: August 25, 2017, 10:07:57 pm »

Well, here's what we got via revisions that doesn't require the CAF to be useful:

1.) We have much better knowledge of aerodynamics. This isn't explicitly stated, but it tends to be necessary to have "derived the best aerodynamic shapes" for projectiles. Before our knowledge was pretty much "if we make it pointed it moves faster".
2.) Explicitly stated greatly increased precision over crystal manufacture. We prooobably got this because evicted felt sorry for us.


Anyways. Have some designs!

Design: ASAF-B49 "Firestorm"

The B49 is the first true bomber.
Spoiler: Fluff (click to show/hide)

Body - Basically just the Lightning's base body minus the added bomb bay.
Turret - Retains the Lightning's turret, though it goes back to the AS-HAC-1 13mm instead of 20mm to save a bit of weight and since it's just for self-defense.

Bomb Bay - A large bomb bay with a pneumatics door on the bottom contains as many Blastshells (which should be a lot) as possible. Each Blastshell on a mount.
Bombing Sights - Self-explanatory. To help aim the bombs at high alttitudes.

ARC - We have cooling circuitry. We've mastered Fireball + its variants. Fireball is ultimately just summoning, igniting, and throwing a ball of gas. Instead, we just find a way to maintain a specific gas mix in a specific area.
-   Cabin - Put the ARC in the cockpit + ball turret to allow for breathing at any altitude.
-   KPD - Integrate the ARC in the KPD to compensate the effects of a thinning atmosphere on the KPD, thus eliminating the altitude ceiling and allowing the B49 to go as high as it needs to go.

TL;DR: A high-altitude bomber.


Design: ASN-C49 "Triton"

The C49, the C standing for "Carrier", symbolizes a new kind of naval warfare.
Lately, the state of naval battles has been left up only to the aircraft. So instead of fighting the status quo, why not embrace it? The Triton is designed specifically for this new avenue of warfare.

Spoiler: Fluff (click to show/hide)

Armor - Similar or greater to/than the Crystalclad.
Bridge - A crystal glass raised bridge is present.
Turrets - Simple 2x 20mm pneumatics-powered turrets are placed on the craft for self-defense against nearby hostile aircraft and sea vessels.
Propulsion - An IDE propels the C49 Triton.
Power - Considering the weaker KPD1 worked at 4 PSF-Cs/second and an IDE uses the much less powerful SPSF-Cs to operate, a single Aether Reactor should be able to handle the 2x 20mm turrets and IDE easily.

Flight Deck/Hangar - The top deck is designed specifically to facilitate takeoffs/landings and storage of aircraft. The deck below this one is primarily for storage of aircraft. Both Valkyries and Lightnings should be fine.
Pneumatic Lift - A pneumatics-powered lift connects the two decks for easy unpowered aircraft/storage transport between them. Low priority, since aircraft can just move between decks themselves since 100% VTOL.


TL;DR: We build a better carrier than Forenia's first carrier in ICAR carrier. And it'll be awesome.


Remember when we had steam engine paddleboats that struggled to carry just the steam engine itself?

@VoidSlayer: You're describing exactly the Seeker missiles. The other design I submitted that lost to the Valkyrie.

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4342 on: August 25, 2017, 11:39:16 pm »

Anyway, I think full on missiles would be better then rocket shells, and would be effective even if we do not summon the whole thing at once (that it uses steel, since steel is cheap anyway and dense enough for now).

We have enough air craft right now, we need a better weapon for it.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4343 on: August 26, 2017, 12:03:34 am »

Yes.
The Seeker is what you're describing.


Also Crystal is literally cheaper than steel. Even if we hold the mountains this turn and get the metal bonus steel still won't be cheaper since we've invested infrastructure into Crystal. Remember - this is what evicted said about Crystal:

Your crystal is lighter than steel, but denser than water.  It is also lighter than Moskurgs Adamantium, can hold an edge better, is harder, more brittle, and you can essentially 3D print the stuff.

Moskurgs Adamantium is a constant temperature outside of magical forging, lighter than steel, and cheap as dirt.  It has similar hardness and brittleness to RHS, and all their blacksmiths are trained in forging it.

There's a reason we make everything out of crystal. 
Also, the only reason we don't use crystal ammunition right now (even without the CAF) is since it'd have less stopping power. That doesn't really matter for missiles.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4344 on: August 26, 2017, 12:55:31 am »

Yes.
The Seeker is what you're describing.


Also Crystal is literally cheaper than steel. Even if we hold the mountains this turn and get the metal bonus steel still won't be cheaper since we've invested infrastructure into Crystal. Remember - this is what evicted said about Crystal:

Your crystal is lighter than steel, but denser than water.  It is also lighter than Moskurgs Adamantium, can hold an edge better, is harder, more brittle, and you can essentially 3D print the stuff.

Moskurgs Adamantium is a constant temperature outside of magical forging, lighter than steel, and cheap as dirt.  It has similar hardness and brittleness to RHS, and all their blacksmiths are trained in forging it.

There's a reason we make everything out of crystal. 
Also, the only reason we don't use crystal ammunition right now (even without the CAF) is since it'd have less stopping power. That doesn't really matter for missiles.

In that case we need to just up the power of the explosion, though a steel jacket might still be good to penetrate armor, and some smaller pieces for shrapnel in an anti personnel version, although in those cases we could just make specialized crystal or explosive spells.



For way out there stuff, it looks like right now our mages are doing nothing directly on the battlefield.  What if once we have the portable crystal fabricator up we make a "backpack" variant that can be directly used by a wizard to create whatever they are thinking of, mixing "mind detection" magic with versatile circuits, with their "maginess" linking the diffrence.  They could create fortification and weapons, blades, traps specialized armor and all sorts of stuff, like elemental control; but with crystals.  It would also bridge the gap to make our magi tech both usable by none wizards and super buff our wizards.

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4345 on: August 27, 2017, 03:41:46 am »

Revision: Aerophobic Shells [5]

Further refinements to how the print logic for our crystal fabrication units allow us to produce crystal objects with a higher degree of precision.  We can now produce highly complex shapes and designs; most notably is the fact that our Mathemagicians have derived the best aerodynamic shapes for our artillery, rifle, and cannon shells.  Since this application is strictly related to our crystal ammunition, all weapons that use the CAF no longer have the range penalty. Stopping power is still reduced due to the light-weight crystal, and the increase in cost and lack of diversified ammo types means the CAF is still unfeasible for battlefield conditions.
evictedSaint, this has nothing to do with what was described in the post for Aerophobic Crystal. It was a revision of the actual crystal material itself - similar to the Transparent Crystal revision - so that all our crystal stuff would be a lot more aerodynamic, including our aircraft. It was supposed to make it so that air would slide right off the crystal instead of rubbing against it, significantly reducing air resistance. It was not supposed to be a new way to shape crystal. The revision was Aerophobic Crystal, not Aerophobic Shells. The mention of shells was just supposed to be an example of what the new kind of crystal should've been able to do. The fact that I used "aerophobic" instead of "aerodynamic" should've been enough to note that it was a material advancement, not a shaping advancement.

EDIT: This as a Revision should be possible since we did something similar in regards to changing the properties of crystal itself in the form of Transparent Crystal.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 03:47:23 am by Andres »
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4346 on: August 27, 2017, 03:26:58 pm »

@Andrea: If we assume there's a direct correlation between shell size and fabrication time, then it'd still take less than 5 seconds for the CAF to work in the Lightning turret. (AS-R1 is ~12mm, Lightning turret is 20mm).
(20/12)^3*2.5=11.57...
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4347 on: August 27, 2017, 04:00:16 pm »

Hey chief, you may want to consider replacing the ARC based off a Blastball with an ARC based off Fog, it seems more direct to go from fog to atmosphere.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4348 on: August 27, 2017, 04:37:02 pm »

@RAM: I'm not sure that cubing is the right way to get the mass from the caliber, but I did forget to factor in actual mass.
Still, though. Looking at just speed, the Lightning Turret should still benefit from the CAF1. The loading times would definitely be higher than my initial estimate but probably somewhat lower than 11.57 seconds.

@Fallacy: That's actually a really good idea. I'll keep that in mind for when I try getting the ARC or an ARC-containing design passed.

Anyways, since I'm making a new post, I may as well post a design!
Idea behind this one is to make a new gun - the AS-HA1 was introduced in 932 and the AS-HAC-1 in 938. They're both designed around outdated concepts. The AS-HAC-1 was basically designed as a prototype for breech-loading and a stop-gap measure for Moskurg's primitive completely unarmored airforce. It has bad range, bad stopping power, bad aiming, and bad rate of fire for what it was designed to do. We've improved in a lot of ways since then, so we should really update our mainstay weaponry.

Design: AS-AC49 "Devastator"
(AutoCannon 949; successor to HAC-1 - Hybrid AutoCannon-1)

The AC49 Devastator is, well, it's a devastating weapon. A new 20mm gun that's actually an autocannon, designed to replace the AS-HAC-1 in the field.

Spoiler: Fluff (click to show/hide)

Reactor - We put a greatly downscaled Reactor, just enough power for the gun itself, in the weapon. Though the gun can be made without the reactor if it's being made to put in a vehicle with its own power source. (Given the reactor is just a specific arrangement of crystals + bit of extra circuitry, this should be no problem.) Lets the AC49 use more power (thanks to Reactor's power output!) and be usable by anyone.
KPD Propellant - We adapt the KPD for use as propellant, taking advantage of its greater power, control, and directional thrust. Greater power/control should drastically improve barrel velocities, but the directional thrust should also let us scale power without scaling barrel thickness - since the barrel doesn't need to brunt the unfocused blast anymore.

CAF2 - The CAF1 is just a fabrication unit stuck on a gun. It's designed to make things of any complexity of design with the ability to swap in different designs. We do not need this on a gun. So instead we just hardwire in a design and make the crystal fabricator only big/power-hungry enough for the bullet and not for the most complex biggest design we could ever theoretically make. Should greatly improve expense/power efficiency/size/reliability/speed. Focus of the design.
Weightite - While at it, we finagle the CAF2 to make denser crystal for bullets. Should be easy, given our crystal tweaking experience + how this is basically just "put more crystal per centimeter." Basically.

Use - The AC49 is to be used with a mount for infantry largely replacing the AS-HAC-1 and will replace the existing 20mm gun in the Lightning.

TL;DR - We make the next generation gun. With full CAF integration, integrated reactor, better stopping power and more, this will become a hugely versatile gun for both infantry and vehicle use. Basically the AS-HAC-2, but with a less silly name.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4349 on: August 30, 2017, 10:30:03 am »

It has come to my attention that the recent lull in infighting is not enough for us to earn our credit back from ES. We have to show actual team building.

In the spirit of that, Let's play a teambuilding game!

The game is called "The exquisite corpse". It's an old parlor game from the early 1900's. I will write one sentence. The next person will read that sentence, and write one more sentence off of it. Here's the twist. The person after that can only read person 2's sentence, and then they write a sentence off of that, without knowing what my original sentence was. We continue this until we get bored, or everyone has had a turn, or just whenever really, and then we put it all together and read the story we wrote!

Please keep sentences separated in spoilers, so we can play without reading other sentences. If you get ninjad, wait for a few other people to post, and then try again so you aren't overly informed of the story.

Let's aim for 10 sentences on the first one.

Spoiler: Sentence 1 (click to show/hide)
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