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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 376932 times)

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3090 on: June 11, 2017, 03:51:17 pm »

Vote locked before you can make another tie.

AS-R1 it is, with research credit.

Aww... but it's a tradition by now.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3091 on: June 11, 2017, 03:54:03 pm »

Damnit Evicted.
You're repressing Arstotzkan tradition. Clearly you're biased towards Moskurg "cooperation".
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3092 on: June 11, 2017, 04:08:31 pm »

So what are we going to do for our revision? Updating our armour will make infantry useful again - especially with the R1 in their hands - and give us transparent crystal. Revising our steam engine to be made out of crystal will make them lighter, more durable, and will make them Cheap.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3093 on: June 11, 2017, 04:10:19 pm »

Oh yeah, cheap steam engines.
But yeah. I'd definitely say revising our engines+cannons to be made out of crystal so we can fix the horrific vulnerability in the Crystalclads.

Maybe we could fit in basic infantry armor as well, since it's all just material swaps.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3094 on: June 11, 2017, 04:23:40 pm »

Aren't our engines already armored?

If they're not, crystal armor would be good.

Either way, though, electricity resistant crystal would be a very good idea.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3095 on: June 11, 2017, 04:34:12 pm »

Design: AS-R1 Hybrid Rifle [(1|2), (4|6)-2, (3|6)-1] => [2, 6-1, 6-1]

Your Mathemagicians start drawing some weird looks as they produce yet another cannon that's even smaller than the last one.

The new cannon is designed to be small enough that a single person can hold and operate it, removing the need for a wooden carriage or tripod.  As we now have multiple cannon sizes now, we've taken the liberty of designating the sizes of each type of ammunition - this small cannon (a.k.a. a "rifle") uses a shell (a.k.a. a "bullet") that's slightly more than half the size of our HAC-1 cannon.  Based on an esoteric measurement unit, we would say it's 16 mm's in diameter.

As thin crystal tends to rupture, the walls of the all-crystal barrel is about equal to the size of the bullet in thickness - earlier tests resulted in rather lethal explosions, necessitating a rather thick barrel.  The barrel should be able to withstand firing indefinitely with crystal microrepairs.  Being made out of crystal means the internal rifling is simple to add, gripping the bullet (made out of lead to maintain as high a density as possible) and inducing a spin.  The barrel is about the same length as a mans arm.  The bolt and trigger are made out of steel out of necessity; the trigger is a thin lever the length of a mans hand that extends along the handle.  The bolt experiences frequent stress and high-pressure, and the extra weight of the steel allows it to absorb more of the recoil when fired.  The stock is made out of crystal and rests against the shoulder of the operator; a leather pad encompasses the stock to make it more gentle on the user. 

The small side of the firing chamber and bullet necessitates a smaller PSF to appropriately fit inside, described by our Mathemagicians as a Smaller Powerful Streamlined Fireball.  The SPSF can be operated by two A-level magegems clipped into either end of our a newest invention: a "Scroll".  The scroll is essentially a nickel circuit written into an copper sheet and then rolled into a cylinder about the length of a mans forearm.  This reduces the size taken up by the circuit and allows it to be snapped into place along the side of the rifle.  Wires connect the magegems to the circuit, and the circuit to the combustion chamber.  An additional circuit wraps around the barrel of the gun and extends down to the combustion chamber to cool the weapon between shots.  The gun can be fired about nine times a minute by a mage casting the SPSF directly into the combustion chamber, or four times a minute by a non-magical user replacing the A gems between shots - slower than a longbow.

Try as we might, however, the muzzle velocity of the gun is rather...lacking.  Unable to project the bullet farther than short range, the new rifle is rather disappointing in is killing ability.  Our mathemagicians point to the attempt to fire the gun without a water propellant - most of the energy from the SPSF is lost through heat rather than through expansion.  Our steam cannons operate by flash-heating the water, which rapidly expands into steam to carry the bullet out of the gun, but our fireballs were never designed for that purpose.  At the moment, the rifles are outclassed by a traditional longbow.

The crystal design makes the gun relatively cheap, but the expensive A-level magegems make it more expensive.  Every wizard could be equipped with a rifle without the gems, but the necessity of the gems for mundane users makes them Very Expensive.  If they were better than a longbow, they would be given to our Elite Anti-Mage troops. 

Very Expensive for non-magic users.
Expensive for mages.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 04:35:51 pm by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3096 on: June 11, 2017, 04:37:08 pm »

Okay. That's a very solid base that we can revise on later.

Revision: Crystal Construction
See, the problem with steel is that it tends to be vulnerable to lightning.

Moskurg's tendency to use lightning is perhaps their greatest weapon over Arstotzka. Against individual targets it's still a competent weapon, but ultimately not anywhere near powerful enough to hold a candle to Arstotzka's glorious might.
The problem, is when they target our weak points. Namely our steam engines and cannons. Trains are constantly derailed after lightning hits their engine. Perhaps the number one cause for the destruction of a cannon and its crew is a lightning strike.

Crystal doesn't have the same problem. It's not vulnerable to lightning strikes in anywhere near the same way as steel is. And even if a Moskurger manages to get a direct lightning hit on crystal, the crystal will just suffer minor damage that'll be regenerated fairly quickly.

So the obvious solution is to use crystal. We've had experience with all-crystal mechanical designs. The AS-HAC-1, for example, [as well as the AS-SPA-1's engine], incorporate this all-crystal construction element. We can use the techniques displayed here and extend them to every instance of a steam engine, HA1, or HC1-E. No longer will our cannons or artillery be vulnerable to lightning. No longer will our Crystalclads be sunk by one lucky lightning hit. No longer will our trains be derailed after just one hit by lightning.
Every steam engine will be made of crystal. Every HA1 will be made from crystal. Every HC1-E will be made with crystal.

TL;DR: Start using 100% crystal to make all our steam engines, HA1s, and HC1-Es. Makes our Crystalclads (+ trains) a lot tougher since they no longer have an exploitable weak spot. Makes our cannons/artillery much tougher because they can no longer be destroyed w/ collateral damage in just one lightning strike. Probably a really good idea.

Quote
DESIGNS
1 - Crystal Construction: Chiefwaffles
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3097 on: June 11, 2017, 04:41:22 pm »

There's a problem. As much as I think it might be useful, it's currently not that powerful. And it certainly doesn't help on the seas, which is the most important thing.

Water Conjuration(a derivation of our conjure fog) could fix this problem, but we need something to fix our ocean battles first.

Buoy of Forever Frost: We've used crystal to make a smaller version of our towers of forever frost that is less powerful, but can float. Basically, now they're going to start freezing in their ships, and their lightning bolt spell isn't going to work as much now. It also turns the sea around it into ice, which lets us put cannons on said ice, creating defensive positions.

Quote from: Vote Buoy of Forever Frost
REVISIONS
1 - Buoy of Forever Frost: FallacyofUrist
1 - Crystal Construction: Chiefwaffles

Ninja: okay, sure. That'll do, but it might be better to prevent lightning from happening in the first place. After you critique the Buoy of Forever Frost, I'll probably change my vote.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3098 on: June 11, 2017, 04:47:39 pm »

If we don't fix the rifle this turn, may I suggest not deploying it? it is inferior to the longbow so it doesn't give us immediate benefits and it would be ncie to keep it a surprise.
By the way, I want to say a big "I TOLD YOU SO" to people who kept saying that a boiler is not needed and that our fireballs are a great source of concussive force.  bulelts work because the explosionturns solid into heated gas, increasing volume icnredibly. Fireball just makes heat without any phase transistion, meaning the pressure is far lower. I have been saying this since before we got cannons.
Of course, had it been a 6 it may have been solved, but still it was 2 so I get to gloat.
Should be reasonably easy to fix. We also need better magegems to power the thing so it can be cheaper.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3099 on: June 11, 2017, 04:50:10 pm »

Andrea, you do realize this is because of the 2 in effectiveness? It'd only really matter if doing the fireball propulsion gave us roll penalties.

But I think Crystal Construction is really important. The rifles won't help immensely at sea even if fixed. We need to make it so they can't just immediately sink our Crystalclads by hitting the steam engines. Crystal Construction also makes our cannons more resistant to their lightning, which is currently (I believe) the #1 method they use to destroy our artillery+cannons.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3100 on: June 11, 2017, 04:52:14 pm »

Quote
If we don't fix the rifle this turn, may I suggest not deploying it?
I was just about to post this.

If we had rolled anything other than perfect, our cost would have been national effort. Which is ridiculous. wew.
Maybe we ought to throw a revision into the crystal works to be making mage gems at the same time? I feel like lowering the cost of mage gems is the main way to lower the cost of our guns.

The pressure problem can be fixed by revising our bullets to come in a casing with a bit of an accelerant in the bottom.
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andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3101 on: June 11, 2017, 04:54:27 pm »

Andrea, you do realize this is because of the 2 in effectiveness? It'd only really matter if doing the fireball propulsion gave us roll penalties.

Of course, had it been a 6 it may have been solved, but still it was 2 so I get to gloat.

I do.

had we roleld higher, I suppose we would have tweaked the fireball to give concussive force or as helmacon suggested put some combustible/explosive matter on the bullet.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3102 on: June 11, 2017, 04:56:51 pm »

Well, just saying it doesn't mean you do since you were talking about how you were right.

We should revise the rifle/magegems later. It'd be nice but ultimately just isn't the best option right now. We're winning pretty easily in all theatres except in the sea where their lightning is easily one-shotting our ships. And making our cannons out of crystal would help at land too as they couldn't destroy our emplacements as easily.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3103 on: June 11, 2017, 04:59:54 pm »

Quote from: Vote Buoy of Forever Frost
REVISIONS
1 - Buoy of Forever Frost: FallacyofUrist
2 - Crystal Construction: Chiefwaffles, Helmacon


@EvS, can we get clarification on what exactly happens when lightning strikes crystal?
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3104 on: June 11, 2017, 05:01:16 pm »

-snip-

If it'd been two points lower, it would have been NE for non-magic users and VE for mages.  Four points lower it would have been NE for mages.
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