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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 445866 times)

Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2010 on: May 06, 2019, 01:43:28 pm »

I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.
Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:47:33 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2011 on: May 06, 2019, 02:38:27 pm »

I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.
Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.

Quality control over mods via use of forums moderators could greenlight to get around this non-premium content distinction, i don't mean to be rude but it'd be a bit cheeky if Meph added Masterwork on as DLC (though for nessecity of being paid to do the spriting and possibly added sheen by Toady, i don't know know, then it'd really just be a art-pack)

The most popular content from the forums is likely to be the first thing people download for their steam edition anyway besides what they can organise themselves.

This discussion is getting quite lengthy, and has few questions to Toady in it. Should it maybe be moved to its own thread?

Yes i think it probably should

Its odd and im sure someone can pick up a similar question asked previously, would you ever support DLC for the steam version collaboratively as a 'add on' or 'technical polishing' of a mod?


To provide a example, a popular mod like Masterwork utilises elements of the game through DFhack to incur the desired effect by reusing game assets or mechanics exploitatively on script command (teleportation etc), if you were to code over these, it would constitute besides what assets the mod creator can bring themselves like sprites to creating a premium package.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 03:09:50 pm by FantasticDorf »
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2012 on: May 08, 2019, 05:42:55 am »

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them

This exactly is why a steam port might need to have a compiler to remotely check the fluidity and block faulty attempts or easy access to the raws to fix such a thing which should refer the player back to the forums, wiki or steam guide pages to seek advice.

I guess actual gameplay guides such as 'building your first windmill farm', getting to grips with minecarts etc might serve to be more popular.

game already has a compiler for the raws by any reasonable definition of compiler, it just doesn't support patching/overwriting/whatever of existing raw objects, instead just spitting out a "duplicate raw" error and going crazy

Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2013 on: May 09, 2019, 01:41:10 am »

" There are bugs to wrangle - sometimes they take off and join performance troupes.". Dwarf Fortress bugs are always the best.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2014 on: May 09, 2019, 02:16:33 am »

" There are bugs to wrangle - sometimes they take off and join performance troupes.". Dwarf Fortress bugs are always the best.
I think Toady meant the the sapient zombies join troupes, although those are certainly buggy enough for bugs to have joined them :P

Regarding the latest dev log: It's an interesting "preview" of sphere influence logic to allow necro towers to change the evilness of their surroundings. Are you planning any counters to this (e.g. razing or conquering a necro tower causing the evilness to dissipate and the world tiles to gradually return to their base state) to avoid a gradual decay of the world into complete evilness as necro towers are created and stomped out?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2015 on: May 09, 2019, 04:07:51 am »

I assume not, but just in case, will we be able to experience the creeping evil biome in fortress mode if we embark on the edge of the evil and leave the tower alone for years?

Opening the map and discovering you're now the one good square in a sea of evilness is kind of fun too, I guess...
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2016 on: May 09, 2019, 05:05:18 am »

Regarding the newest devlog's mention of regions slowly becoming evil due to necromancer influence, will that be a hardcoded thing linked to towers or will that be more linked towards the caster type itself, so that modders could make the region become good over time instead?

voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2017 on: May 09, 2019, 05:16:08 am »

Intelligent zombie lieutenants (with historical backgrounds!) are an exciting addition. Are they an automatic consequence of any corpse-raising interaction, or are they being restricted to the vanilla necromancers until the big magic rework? If they aren't restricted, is there a way to control the kind of names they are assigned depending on the interaction?

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2018 on: May 09, 2019, 05:18:31 am »

Regarding the newest devlog's mention of regions slowly becoming evil due to necromancer influence, will that be a hardcoded thing linked to towers or will that be more linked towards the caster type itself, so that modders could make the region become good over time instead?
Ooh, I can just imagine the weird worlds I could get if my elven forest retreats were generating goodness while the dark elf sites are generating evilness and some tribe of monkeypeople are generating savagery all at the same time.

No room for poor old dorfs, but never mind about them.  ;)
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2019 on: May 09, 2019, 05:58:11 am »

Aw, poor zombie lieutenants, cursed to never be able to join a performance troupe. All their dreams of stardom, *poof*.
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Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2020 on: May 09, 2019, 07:08:38 am »

The intelligent dead have been a goalpost for a while, exciting stuff and it feels nice to have a non-steam related question.

Quote
Since the abilities of a necromancer become the abilities of the player generally when they become a necromancer themselves, will we be able to raise our companions and important NPC's as intelligent zombies if they die?

A comparison i guess can be drawn from is the 'RPG Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic' where a specific skill branch of magic could allow you to speak to dead characters (killed by yourself or others) with lots of custom NPC lines arranged for that occasion. I wonder if revived zombies will be more talkative with you in death than they were life about sensitive subjects.
  • On a whole other note, hamlets took over by the player inhabited entirely with the undead are probably a end result, spooky hamlets in range of towers i hope get a inclusion (which is also a talked about devlog/devchat thing)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2021 on: May 09, 2019, 07:23:04 am »

@Shonai_Dweller: It wouldn't be hard to write a DFHack script that produced Savagery and/or Evilness spreading (towards either end, as well as any other point on the scales [a bit like value influencing books, but with a yearly {or monthly/weekly...} effect]).
I believe the current version of the game has a version of this logic already, civs taming Savage world tiles during world gen history (I don't know if it's active in game play).
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2022 on: May 09, 2019, 07:45:09 am »

@Shonai_Dweller: It wouldn't be hard to write a DFHack script that produced Savagery and/or Evilness spreading (towards either end, as well as any other point on the scales [a bit like value influencing books, but with a yearly {or monthly/weekly...} effect]).
I believe the current version of the game has a version of this logic already, civs taming Savage world tiles during world gen history (I don't know if it's active in game play).
Yeah, I'll move on to DFhack scripts when I need to. This is probably something that would push me over to learning about DFhack. It fits my world's behaviour well.

I guess elves spreading savagery would also make a lot of sense. More giant animals to kick demon's heads in.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 07:56:53 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Hapchazzard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2023 on: May 09, 2019, 08:49:18 am »

1. Will creatures with a very high intrigue/divination abilities be biased towards responding to threats from the player's party more rapidly compared to AI entities, at least to a small degree, for plot purposes?

2. Will characters with a vendetta against a villain be able to offer to join your party if they find out you're directly fighting said villain?

3. Will villains be able to send agents to try and infiltrate the player's party itself, for example by pretending to be a bereaved party seeking revenge (like in 2.)

4. Similar to 3, will villains be able to try and sow discord within an entity by pitting important members against each other through false evidence and slander, up to and including the player's party?

5. Will agents of villains be able to stalk the party, interrogate people that the party has talked to for info, etc.

6. Will 'disposable pawns' be a thing for sufficiently ruthless villains? e.g. tying up loose ends by killing low-level members that have fulfilled their purpose if they know too much, setting up low-level members to take the fall for a crime, etc.

7. Will the villains do petty, not-entirely-rational villainous actions if they're particularly vicious, arbitrary and it aligns with their personality in general? By this, I mean things like:
a) Killing subordinates for minor or imagined slights, perceived failure in their duties, or if they're unhinged enough, just for the heck of it
b) Dolling out disproportionate retribution to entities that have cooperated with their enemies, like butchering and burning down an entire village just because some peasant in it let the heroic adventurers stay overnight
c) Making a spectacle out of eliminating their enemies, e.g. publicly parading and then executing them, intentionally assassinating them in a brutal fashion in public, killing them in front of friends and loved ones (if said friends and loved ones are also prisoners, but also possibly keeping hostages around just to do this later if the villain expects a direct confrontation in the near future)
d) Destroying artifacts of sentimental value to their foes, if said artifact isn't too useful to them, or even destroying highly useful artifacts out of spite if they feel that their loss is imminent
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2024 on: May 09, 2019, 09:17:09 am »

I wonder if revived zombies will be more talkative with you in death than they were life about sensitive subjects.

Hopefully the dead you raise have some increased trust/respect/loyalty for you, in which case that should act towards making them more talkative.
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