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What Time Is It?

Space-Time
- 2 (14.3%)
Hammer Time
- 3 (21.4%)
Time...to die.
- 6 (42.9%)
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
- 3 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 14


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Author Topic: Industrialized Warfare: Salvios Thread / 1917 A.C. Cold Season (COMPLETE)  (Read 95064 times)

NUKE9.13

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[font=verdana][size=10pt]On the subject of power generation what about Magnetohydrodynamic generators.

[/size][/font]
Two things: First, we're operating on a 1910s tech level- I think that'd be beyond us. Better to come up with soft sci-fi methods of power generation, rather than using RL tech with RL limitations and difficulties.
Second, why on earth did you manually set the font type and size of your message to be the forum default?

The proposal is absolutely viable. When I set up the parameters for Gavrilium I took from the fact that you can burn it like coal that it can generate power. That is literally the only guideline I've given myself for it. If you want to do something with it that produces energy, whether it's electromagnetic like I feel the engine is pointing towards, or explosive like attempted with the M1, I'll allow an attempt.
Thanks for the answer. Hopefully now people will get behind my proposal.



Anyway, to hasten progress in future turns, I figured we could start planning our actions out ahead of time a little. Like, what do we want to work towards?
Here's what I think is essential to have by the start of the war:
-Bolt-action rifle (check)
-Semi-automatic pistol
-Grenade (in progress)
-Machine gun (I expect we will be asked to develop this regardless)
-2 kinds of artillery (light and heavy) (CW's proposal would fill the heavy roll)(Also, like with the MG, I expect we will be asked to design artillery)
-An aircraft of some sort
-A watercraft of some sort (unless we aren't allowed navies at all; the core thread OP isn't clear on whether we just don't have one at the moment, or are incapable of creating one)

Stuff I'd like:
-Gavrilium-enhanced explosives of some sort; it must be possible somehow.
  -GEX shells for artillery.
-An armoured land vehicle. Could be a tank, but I'd prefer a mech.
-Portable radio. Gavrilium batteries would reduce the weight of WWI-era radio considerably.
-Energy shields or similar. Stationary to start with, to protect machine gun emplacements/command posts. Again, this is something I would like, not something essential. Just throwing ideas out there.
-More aircraft. Ideally, I'd like to develop Gravite anyway, and combine it with Gavrilium to create massive flying battleships.
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Long Live United Forenia!

Madman198237

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Quote from: Botevox
Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (3): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Madman
Gavrilium Engine (3): NUKE9.13, Parsely, Madman

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (4): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Baffler, Madman
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We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Rockeater

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Quote from: Botevox
Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (4): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Madman, Rockeater
Gavrilium Engine (4): NUKE9.13, Parsely, Madman, Rockeater

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (5): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Baffler, Madman, Rockeater
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Damnit people, this is why I said to keep the truce. Because now everyone's ganging up on the cats.
Also, don't forget to contact your local Eldritch Being(s), so that they can help with our mission to destroy the universe.

Baffler

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Quote from: Botevox
Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (5): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Madman, Rockeater, Baffler
Gavrilium Engine (5): NUKE9.13, Parsely, Madman, Rockeater, Baffler

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (5): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Baffler, Madman, Rockeater



Quote
Anyway, to hasten progress in future turns, I figured we could start planning our actions out ahead of time a little. Like, what do we want to work towards?
Here's what I think is essential to have by the start of the war:
-Bolt-action rifle (check)
-Semi-automatic pistol
-Grenade (in progress)
-Machine gun (I expect we will be asked to develop this regardless)
-2 kinds of artillery (light and heavy) (CW's proposal would fill the heavy roll)(Also, like with the MG, I expect we will be asked to design artillery)
-An aircraft of some sort
-A watercraft of some sort (unless we aren't allowed navies at all; the core thread OP isn't clear on whether we just don't have one at the moment, or are incapable of creating one)

Stuff I'd like:
-Gavrilium-enhanced explosives of some sort; it must be possible somehow.
  -GEX shells for artillery.
-An armoured land vehicle. Could be a tank, but I'd prefer a mech.
-Portable radio. Gavrilium batteries would reduce the weight of WWI-era radio considerably.
-Energy shields or similar. Stationary to start with, to protect machine gun emplacements/command posts. Again, this is something I would like, not something essential. Just throwing ideas out there.
-More aircraft. Ideally, I'd like to develop Gravite anyway, and combine it with Gavrilium to create massive flying battleships.

I'd prefer to get some kind of land vehicle before we try for aircraft. Some kind of armored car maybe, since the first battles will be happening in urban environment of Harren Island and both sides will probably use at least one turn (probably more depending on how long the fighting on Harren Island itself actually lasts) digging in at the zone on the friendly side of the crossing I figure it'll be more immediately useful to harden up our ground forces and give them some mobility. Otherwise that all sounds good to me.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 01:07:04 pm by Baffler »
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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Man of Paper

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Votes are now locked and results for the phase should be in before the sun rises in the US. There will be no strategy phase this turn, so now all you have to do is wait around and shoot the shit while I get us through to the next turn.
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NUKE9.13

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Quote from: Discord
Man of PaperToday at 9:07 AM
Just want to let you all know at once while I'm working on these designs - keep in mind that every turn after this one you will gain one resource of your choice from the ones available to you, with three spaces to fill in every region that isn't one of your capitals. Resource cost is going to reflect the slightly larger pool of resources.
Wanted to clear that up here if I forget to in the posts.

NUKE9.13Today at 9:15 AM
Does that include special resources?
I assume not..

Man of PaperToday at 9:18 AM
Not as much, but numbers are generally going to seem worse than we're used to. Mind you it's not inflated too much, since I want to see what kind of craziness a 12 Ore 7 Special Resource design would be

NUKE9.13Today at 9:19 AM
I meant, can we get more special resources that way
Or are we limited to choosing ore/wood/oil

Man of PaperToday at 9:20 AM
Oh yeah, you can dedicate a node to special resources
They're treated as normal resources in that regard

NUKE9.13Today at 9:20 AM
:o

Man of PaperToday at 9:20 AM
You wanna stockpile 27 element x? Go ahead!
So this is pretty significant. I think we definitely want to research some more special resource types- I assumed that we wouldn't be able to actually get any new special resources without jumping through hoops, but I stand corrected. We could set up Myomer growth chambers in the Lowlands. Gravite mines in the Plateaus. Gods-know-what-else synthesizers in the Desert.
For example, I was going to suggest a relatively vanilla aeroplane for our first aircraft, but no more! I'm going to advocate for researching Gravite, and then we can go straight to floating warships. And heck, if folks still want to do Myomer, I'm not opposed to it. Pull out all the stops!
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Man of Paper

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Year 1911 AC (After Colonization) Cold Season, Revision Phase

Proposal: Gavrilium Engine
Gavrilium Engine: Steam engines are so last century. Combustion engines are a dead-end technology, that will never amount to much. Gavrilium Engines are where it's at.
A Gavrilium Engine consists of Gavrilium rods surrounding a central crankshaft, upon which are mounted metal plates made of certain alloys. As a plate passes a rod, it draws energy from it, which is transformed into mechanical energy, propeling the plate, rotating the shaft. It somewhat resembles an electrical motor, except that the energy is drawn directly from the Gavrilium (hence not requiring separate batteries), and the mysterious energies that Gavrilium produces are stronger than regular magnets (hence resulting in more powerful motors at smaller sizes)(in theory magnets of equal or greater power could be created, but this is beyond our means at present).
The Gavrilium rods are enough to power an engine of moderate size non-stop for days on end, but eventually they will be depleted, whereupon they can be removed by a technician and replaced with fresh rods. (We may be able to find a use for Depleted Gavrilium in the future)
Prototype Gavrilium Engines have been built by eccentric sciency types for decades, but it is high time we dedicated our military budget to developing effective models that can be used to do... well, all sorts of things.

PS: The engine glows blue when in use. This has been identified as "well cool", potentially boosting morale, but in cases where a glowing blue engine would be a hindrance, a simple cowl can be placed over it.

Difficulty: Hard
Result: 10 (6+5-1) = Superior Craftsmanship

The Gavrilium Engine is a simple design with brilliant results. A central drive shaft runs through the motor. At the middle of the shaft is a cylindrical rotor with a number of slightly angled thin metal slats composed of an iron-nickel alloy mounted on it. Just clear of the rotor are a number of Gavrilium rods dependent on the size and power requirements of the engine. Once the shaft begins rotating (either through manual cranking or an ignition mechanism) it will continue to run for around a week as the Gavrilium rods produce a magnetic field created when the slats move past them, spinning the rotor, which causes the slats to pass the rods until they're spent. The engine can be turned off and on freely: the reaction between the rods and the alloy almost completely stops once the rotor stops spinning. The energy transferred electromagnetically from the rods to the rotor translates to an immense amount of power in relation to the cost of conventional engines in both resources and space. An 8-Rod Engine produces roughly the same amount of power as the increasingly popular V8 Engine at roughly 1/3 the size and at a lower cost.

The only issue with the engine is heat - or the lack thereof. Drawing energy out of Gavrilium and depleting it causes a massive drop in temperature - enough so that handling Depleted Gavrilium without proper protection will immediately begin to freeze and kill off any bare skin it contacts. While handling the material is dangerous this does mean overheating isn't an issue. What we are calling "overcooling" however, is. Currently in extremely cold environments the engine can begin to freeze over, potentially seizing the drive shaft and immediately cutting out the engine. This can be fixed by removing the rods before applying some sort of heat to the engine to thaw it out.

Also of note is the "well cool" blue glow emanating from the engines as a result of the reaction taking process.

A design using a Gavrilium Engine will have an additional cost of 1 Ore. The vehicles will cost no Oil, instead costing 1/2 the amount in Gavrilium rounded up. For example if you designed a vehicle that would normally cost 6 Ore and 6 Oil or 2 Ore and 3 Oil their costs would become 7 Ore and 3 Gavrilium and 3 Ore and 2 Gavrilium respectively.

We have also learned that it is possible to extract energy from Gavrilium electromagnetically and that it freezes when inert.

---------------


Proposal: GA1 Cannon
GA1 Cannon (please for the love of god give me better names please please)

Okay, so traditional Gavrillium exposed to traditional explosives melts the Gavrillium really fast.
We believe that by using a powdered form of Gavrillium intermixed with regular gunpowder Cordite condensed into relatively tight volumes, we can create an extraordinarily effect explosive. The exact nature in which Gavrilium melts -- extraordinarily rapidly, among other things -- combined with traditional gunpowder could very well allow us to make an explosive orders of magnitudes better than just gunpowder.

We aren't exactly reader to put the "Gavpowder" in infantry rifles yet, so we'll use it in a different vital piece of kit - artillery. The GA1 (Gavrilium Artillery) Cannon is a breech-loading 150mm caliber howitzer, designed to fulfill our artillery needs. Gavpowder allows the shells to go at significant speeds, causing more damage and at longer ranges than a similar conventional piece of artillery.

Difficulty: Hard
Result: 5 (3+3-1) = Below Average

The GA1 is Salvios' first attempt at heavy weaponry, and unfortunately it shows. The GA1 Cannon is a 150mm artillery piece loaded through an interrupted screw breech. While the GA1 can be fired by a trained crew at a rate of 3 to 4 rounds per minute, we failed to take into account the excess heat from the newly formulated "Gavpowder" into account. As a result, continued usage of the GA1 can result in barrel warping and ultimately failure of the piece. Crews are therefore ordered to fire no more than a half dozen rounds before letting the GA1 cool for an extended period of time. The GA1 is moved using a sled and horses.

While it can be fired accurately up to six kilometers, the Gavpowder allows for highly inaccurate shots out to nine.

The GA1 Cannon costs 5 Ore and 3 Gavrilium, making it (Very Expensive).


-----------------


Proposal: M2 Dispersion Grenade [Revision]
Revision: M2 Dispersion Grenade
A small traditional charge inside the Gavrilium Grenade causes the superheated Gavrilium to rapidly disperse across a wide area. The casing switch is removed, as we don't have the time to make it useful at the moment. Bits of molten Gavrilium flung across a wide area should be extraordinarily devastating to enemies.
As the Gavrilium only melts after the charge goes off, we really have no other concerns. The charge should go off when the grenade is in its desired position, like literally every other grenade ever.

Difficulty: Normal
Result: 9 (6+3+0) = Above Average

There is one major difference between the M1 and M2: the M2 works. The first thing we did was take another look at the design of the grenade, and it turns out there were a lot of issues.

The M2 has a reliable six second fuse as opposed to the M1's "anything goes" fuse. Our soldier no longer need to fear loss of limb the moment they prime the grenade. The selector switch is gone now, as it was shorting out when flipped and was immediately setting off the charge. The third issue had to do with the grenade's casing. The Gavrilium in the grenade never had time to build up pressure in the casing and was too heavy to be easily dispersed by the charge, so the charge was weakened enough to keep from damaging the now reinforced casing. As the Gavrilium rapidly heats and expands, the casing now holds for that extra split second the Gavrilium needs to build up enough pressure in the grenade to violently erupt from it. The intense blast of heat is capable of inflicting serious burns within 4 meters, and the globs of molten Gavrilium are lethally concentrated within 3 meters but can and often do fly as far as 10.

The M2 still costs 1 Ore and 1 Gavrilium, thereby remaining (CHEAP) and replacing the M1.


------------


Thanks to each one of you our military is now ready to push into the Lowlands and pacify the rebellion taking place there. You've all earned your keep and then some this season, so do not be surprised when a bottle of the finest Bryor Wine shows up on your workbenches. We will be in touch again once we know how things turn out in the Lowlands.



Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Territories (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)
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Parsely

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The space and weight savings are extremely valuable, this means we can build armored vehicles that are the equal of their historical contemporaries in firepower while being more mobile and smaller overall, and they won't suffocate their crews with the heat and light weight will improve offroad capability, which mitigates many of the issues there were with early tanks and armored cars.

The cooling might be a bigger problem than at first glance though. Vehicle engines, while they're running, can have issues with overheating in cold environments because coolant fluids freeze in arctic or high altitude conditions, so it seems like this problem would be amplified by a Gavrilium engine which runs cold and needs coolant to keep it warm. I think Gavrilium engines will be high performing in warm environments but a worse option for cold environments, which is unfortunate because their light weight and lack of need for air intake for combustion is a massive advantage. Since they don't need air intake to generate energy or to exhaust waste, maybe they could just be really strongly insulated to guard against heat loss?

Worse yet, if we go for a mix of vehicles with petrol or Gav engines then we create supply issues for ourselves.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 06:06:28 pm by Parsely »
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Jilladilla

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A design using a Gavrilium Engine will have an additional cost of 1 Ore. The vehicles will cost no Oil, instead costing 1/2 the amount in Gavrilium rounded up. For example if you designed a vehicle that would normally cost 6 Ore and 6 Oil or 2 Ore and 3 Oil their costs would become 7 Ore and 3 Gavrilium and 3 Ore and 2 Gavrilium respectively.

So, um. What about non-fuel usages of Oil? Like plastics and synthetic rubber and so on.

Also, Depleted Gavrilium; naturally cold, or is the process of electromagnetically extracting energy from the thing simply an endothermic reaction?
Basically, does the stuff stay cold?

Either way, guys I think we have easy (if maybe crude, I don't know how it works) air conditioning.
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Taricus

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So... basically thanks to Gavrilium we practically ignore the need for oil? Pretty damn sweet really.
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Baffler

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The space and weight savings are extremely valuable, this means we can build armored vehicles that are the equal of their historical contemporaries in firepower while being more mobile and smaller overall, and they won't suffocate their crews with the heat and light weight will improve offroad capability, which mitigates many of the issues there were with early tanks and armored cars.

The cooling might be a bigger problem than at first glance though. Vehicle engines, while they're running, can have issues with overheating in cold environments because coolant fluids freeze in arctic or high altitude conditions, so it seems like this problem would be amplified by a Gavrilium engine which runs cold and needs coolant to keep it warm. I think Gavrilium engines will be high performing in warm environments but a worse option for cold environments, which is unfortunate because their light weight and lack of need for air intake for combustion is a massive advantage. Since they don't need air intake to generate energy or to exhaust waste, maybe they could just be really strongly insulated to guard against heat loss?

Worse yet, if we go for a mix of vehicles with petrol or Gav engines then we create supply issues for ourselves.

Vehicles incorporating it could use big air vents or intakes just like an ordinary one would, but as a means of keeping the thing warm rather than keeping it cool or feeding the combustion reaction. It's a vulnerability, and it wouldn't solve the problem completely, but a gav engine is probably pretty damn difficult to actually damage compared to the diesel engines we'd probably be using otherwise. For stuff in really harsh conditions we'll probably need other strategies though.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 07:56:10 pm by Baffler »
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Parsely

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Vehicles incorporating it could use big air vents or intakes just like an ordinary one would
Right but that costs weight and volume of course, and it's also a potential source of drag on an aircraft and a spot you can't armor on the tank, so I'm wondering how radiator design would be on a gav engine because what if you need fewer or smaller air intakes/exhausts compared to a vehicle with the same role equipped with a petrol engine? That's a big advantage if true, so hopefully we can find a similar real life engineering problem that's already been solved.

...but a gav engine is probably pretty damn difficult to actually damage compared to the diesel engines we'd probably be using otherwise. For stuff in really harsh conditions we'll probably need other strategies though.
I think so, yeah. If you took a Sherman tank for example and swapped the diesel engine for a gav engine, it would be smaller and it wouldn't use petrol, so the engine itself is harder to hit and you could do away with vulnerable fuel tanks and the associated fluid lines, but the engine itself would still burn if the fuel is damaged I suppose but that's still safer. What I'm mostly concerned with though is how the radiator requirements would change. Can we make them smaller to make the tank safer? Surely they also need to be positioned differently since we're warming not cooling, so how does that change the vulnerability of our vehicles?
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Madman198237

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Ouch, Gavrillium engines are physically painful for me. But yeah, apparently we're going to need to use the engines to run some alternators so we can use the electricity from the alternators to run some nice electric heaters, to prevent our engines from somehow sucking the very heat out of the air and shattering things.

We're somehow extracting work from a magnetic force, which violates the laws of physics. Just call it the "mystical fifth force of Gavrillium", even though I'm not sure whether the strong and weak nuclear forces have actually been theorized yet, so we might only have 2 forces right now...Anyways.
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Man of Paper

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Year 1911 AC (After Colonization) Cold Season, Combat Phase



Fighting in the Lowlands


Salvios has mustered it's forces and begun to march men northward in an attempt to put down a violent rebellion in the Lowlands. The cold season sees a light frost kiss the ground only until just before sunrise, but the chill is ever-present nonetheless. First contact between Salvios and the rebels occurred at a bridge crossing over a small but steep drop into a creek. Armed with rifles from the mainland and dressed in their plainclothes a large number of rebels ambushed a Salviosi patrol. Shots flew out from a nearby treeline but passed by the patrol harmlessly. Two Salviosi opened fire from the Salviosi side of the bridge while the rest of the men caught on it ran back. The accuracy of the Senapang made it very easy to suppress and kill the rebel ambushers, who were stuck using old smuggled and imported rifles. They were, however, supported by a squad of what we can only assume were Selicate agents. There wasn't much left to comb through as an M2 detonated amid the group of them, melting flesh off of bone from those too close to it, and setting fire to just about everything in the blast radius.

As the rebels were steadily rolled back they were eventually forced to hunker down in a large village. A tower atop the town hall provided a team of marksmen with an excellent view of any possible Salviosi approach to the village. After a general's son was killed by a shot through the head three GA1 Cannons were positioned a couple kilometers away and pointed towards the town hall. Each gun fired twice, and only two rounds missed their target area, one falling at the village limits and the other hitting a storehouse that had been, apparently, a stockpile of cabbages.

Once the artillery had silenced the marksmen the charge into the village was ordered. While the Senapang proved reliable in the fields and streets, it was a little unwieldy for close-in fighting and resulted in a bloody melee as bayonets were affixed and the two forces clashed in house to house fights. The use of M2s was restricted for the close fighting, as they were too much of a danger to both friendly forces and the buildings themselves - our mission in this situation is not to wipe the area out. Gunfire spilled out of every window and doorway, forcing both sides to hunker down for the time being.

When day turned to night the fighting intensified as the two sides had begun using the cover of darkness to get into the opposing buildings. Soldiers report hearing nothing but the , followed by a few quick shouts and yells, maybe one or two shots fired, and then silence once more. They were terrified, having no way of telling which side was doing the attacking, and no idea if they'd be next.

Ultimately though the Selicate agent responsible for the whole rebellion was wounded in one of the night raids and surrendered. The operation was successful and Salvios is now in full control of the Lowlands.


----------------


Our first successful push was a huge success, and morale is high. We now seek to solidify our control over the Plateaus and Desert that border our capital. We had planned on asking for a design for a large and small support weapon, but you had the foresight to create the GA1. As a result you can make any single design with a Research Credit this phase. You are still tasked with designing a smaller support weapon as a second design, like a mortar or machine gun, and doing so will result in acquiring a Design Credit to be used in the next phase.

There is news, however, from the northern end of Harren Island. Rumors of fighting between our allies trapped in the Coniferous Forest were wiped out - apparently smoke could be seen from Salvios if you were up high enough - and a discovery of two new Resources, one of which apparently helped form their half of the island. Strange new things are happening, and your contributions are appreciated.


Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Territories (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)
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NUKE9.13

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So, hang on, do we get one design with a research credit instead of two designs?
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Long Live United Forenia!
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