I hate everyone here.
Juicebox, let's make it a nice two for two shall we?
Nothing.
I hate everyone here.
Not going to start the game with a more substantial RVS opener even though you know I'm going to give you shit for it?
You're damn right I won't.
A commitment to doing nothing. I actually kind of like this post, because it implies that 4maskwolf is aware that he's not doing anything, and so either will (do something) or it will become alignment indicative (that he's not). I said at the start of the day that this felt town, and it does; it's an acknowledgement that the nothing-nothing posts are anti-town.
Vector burps and picks a duck feather out of their teeth.
Feel free to quote me in this context despite what it says in my sig.
I hate everyone here.
Juicebox, let's make it a nice two for two shall we?
4maskwolf, customarily random voting starts with question, to which the other player is expected to react, in order to acquire a read. For example: what color is my tie.
Why are you voting for Juicebox without actually asking them anything?
Three reasons.
1. Juice thought it would be funny to eat me in Paranormal 26 and I'm a petty bastard.
2. Because Juice joked in pre-game about being sniped as scum N0 and I thought it would be funny to vote with that in mind.
3. Because no question I ask would ever be as interesting as no question at all.
Nothing. It's an answer to a question in the thread, but it's an obvious question (what's with that nothing post and unjustified vote in RVS) with an obvious answer (it's a nothing post and unjustified vote in RVS with some contextual humor). I guess this stops people going after 4maskwolf for not answering questions but it doesn't actually answer the underlying question/accusation, which is regarding the fact that 4maskwolf's RVS contribution is nothing. It's pure noise with no reflection on anyone's alignments; there's no reason from any of the above posts to think that 4maskwolf cares at all about anyone's alignment.
4maskwolf: gonna give a more substantive RVS attempt or just sit there acquiring heat from vector until someone decides it's time to swoop in and join the wagon and have it be too late for you to dig yourself out of the hole? Seen anything scummy so far, since you're being so reserved and auto-reactionary?
They say looking at a trick too hard spoils it. Revealing the trick definitely spoils it.
Also, just because I'm technically online on B12 doesn't mean I'm following the game or actively posting, I was enjoying a nice relaxing game of Long War 2.
I don't have anything further to say until later, probably tomorrow.
Well, it's definitely on me for not following this up earlier, but 4maskwolf making a commitment to not being active is again a problem because he
hasn't done anything in RVS. There's a nebulous promise of future activity and/or previous/ongoing activity with hidden meaning, but I don't think anything came out of this ever so it's actually 4maskwolf saying 'excuse me, I'm done for the day' after doing nothing to find anyone's alignment.
For clarity, the next post is less than eight hours later. I'm not accusing 4maskwolf of inactivity, I wouldn't think he's scummy if all he was was inactive, and I wouldn't be surprised to see inactivity in this game which started on a holyday/weekend and hasn't left the weekend. If I believed the nothing-nothing posts were an attempt to cover up inactivity, I'd think that was suspicious, but I think they'd be there either way. If 4maskwolf was more engaged with the game, I'd expect there to be more posts actually relating to the game and trying to get information out of it. That's my thesis. The extra posts about nothing important don't interfere with that, but they don't represent the kind of content a town player would be trying to produce (additionally) either.
I suppose this technically qualifies as tomorrow, where I am.
I hate everyone here.
Juicebox, let's make it a nice two for two shall we?
4maskwolf
You really want me to take you out two games in a row? Sure I can make that happen. I'll have to lynch you this time, though.
I like this, this is funny. NAI, but funny. You get a pass for now.
Speaking of people who don't get passes.
FallacyOfUrist, I'm genuinely unclear on how you manage to post so much while doing so little. You've spent the entire game waxing poetic about french fries and spazzing your vote between between people so frequently I'd ask if it wasn't a post restriction, but I don't think it is because your second post has no vote change in it. What are you hoping to accomplish this D1?
Toaster:
Also, anyone: I used to be able to hit ctrl-b to bold (as in auto insert the tags), and now it won't. Is that a browser thing or a forum setting somewhere I'm missing?
TBH I didn't even know that was a thing, I can confirm I can't do it on Google Chrome.
Leafsnail:
Merry 1:30am on Christmas day, everyone! I would sincerely like to know how everyone's Christmas is/was this year.
Merry Christmas!
Literally nothing/pure ooc-meta posting other than the one liner to FoU. To be clear, I have no problem with the nothing/meta posts, but they aren't activity in any real sense; leaving aside the idea that they're there to look like activity without having to engage with the game (that's lame but a believable narrative), if I ignore everything irrelevant to the game it's just that one-liner to FoU, which is an incredibly broad and meh RVS question, and 4maskwolf's first actual contribution to the game.
4maskwolf: any strong impressions from toaster/jim/toony/vector/njw (the players besides FoU with longform responses) so far?
It's D1, so by definition no. Gun to my head, neutral/scum/neutral/slight town/neutral in that order, plus town on you.
4maskwolf: What did you think of my self-vote?
Well I wasn't going to engage with this but since you asked directly okay. You're reaction fishing in an incredibly hamfisted way. You wanted to rattle the cage a little bit on D1 by doing something out of the ordinary and see how people's reactions fall. Now to turn the question back around to you: did you feel you got anything useful out of your little fishing expedition?
heydude: The insight about scum being able to use their numbers and knowledge to control the narrative is a good one, especially for a new player, but it's missing an important corollary: town far outnumber scum, and can use their numbers to close ranks and lock the scum out in the cold. The most townsided stomps I've been a part of (Paranormal 25 and 26) were partly the result of the town finding each other before the scum could get the mislynches they needed and systematically wiping out the outsiders. Mechanical methods certainly helped, but you have to be willing to extend a certain level of trust to win as town. Take a look at how webadict plays, not so much his D1s but the other days. A big part of what makes him successful at scumhunting and closing out games is that he's willing to extend trust to others, even if they haven't fully earned it, and work with them to eliminate the people he doesn't trust.
yeah i was working on a post but if everyone's going to be like this the entire game from 3am xmas day then definitely not interested.
Hey I'd be sorry to see you go before we've even really begun. Mafia can engender a sort of hostile tone in a lot of players but it's all fun and games really, best to let it be like water off a duck's back and just engage with the parts of the game that you enjoy. Do you want to sleep on it and come back after Christmas instead of dropping?
Seconding this. I'm sorry the game has been unpleasant for you so far, Caz.
In order: unelaborated reads (asked for, claims not to have strong impressions despite not having been doing work), super lame and generic answer/follow up question to a super lame and generic RVS play he hadn't responded to yet, pure meta/game theory discussion with a newer player, pure meta/ooc/nothing-nothing.
Only the first two parts relate to anyone's alignment in the game, and only really to covering 4maskwolf for RVS. The strength of the scum read on jim (no qualification, unlike the townread on vector) without 4maskwolf having even interacted with jim was particularly offensive, since surely if he though jim was scum town!4maskwolf should be following it up in this post somehow, asking jim questions for example (considering where/how early in the game this is). 4maskwolf is still voting FoU at this point, for the record. Question to ICT doesn't reveal anything about 4maskwolf's alignment and is extremely conservative and minimal.
Every time webadict posts I just hear "Untitled" by Simple Plan playing in the background.
Well I wasn't going to engage with this but since you asked directly okay. You're reaction fishing in an incredibly hamfisted way. You wanted to rattle the cage a little bit on D1 by doing something out of the ordinary and see how people's reactions fall. Now to turn the question back around to you: did you feel you got anything useful out of your little fishing expedition?
You tell me. It hasn't given me any information it hasn't also given you. It's definitely something I can use.
Well I hope you make use of it, then, because I'm not seeing anything actually useful in the reactions to you. When you go so hard on the lolrandom it tends to muddle the reactions you get.
Literally nothing, maybe a meta-complaint about playstyles with ICT.
dolores: His first post just came across as odd to me, is all. I'm afraid I don't have a big dissertation on why he's scum or anything (or at least not one that's easily stateable), I just got bad vibes off the first post. I had a similar thought about Toony but his later posts were better in my eyes and left him at neutral.
FallacyOfUrist and IcyTea: Something for future games, but even if you go into some reaction-fishing gambit again the important things are to be subtle and be quick about it. The more obvious it is the more people will just roll their eyes and give NAI reactions and the longer it takes the more it just muddies the waters and obscures any actual clues that may have fallen out. Also, deliberately bad play makes people check out when it's shoved in their face constantly.
Nirur Torir: Trust can rarely be given unconditionally by the town, you're right, and barring mechanical clears or similar you can never let someone remain fully static on your trust list. But by keeping a revolving list of people you trust, at least enough to work with them, and actively scumhunting and analyzing to keep scum off the list you can position yourself as part of a power bloc opposed to the scum. Because the scum have the power of information and planning, and a strong scumteam can and will use it to try and divide the town: after all, it's much easier to persuade three people to mislynch someone than five, and the more divided the town is the fewer players you need to sway to get your ML.
[b=Current Reads List]
Town: Dolores, Vector, Leafsnail, LuckyOwl
Scum: Jim Groovester
People of Interest (people I have opinions on, but not strongly one way or another): heydude, IcyTea, FallacyOfUrist, ToonyMan
Neutral: Everyone else
[/b]
In order: explains that the scumread on Jim (repeated here) is a gutread without anything to elaborate on it, backs out of a similar (heretofore unmentioned) read on toony. More nothing-nothing commentary on game theory, which doesn't actually contain 4maskwolf's opinions on FoU's or ICT's alignments or any indication that he's thought about it. More lame meta/game theory stuff with Nirur which doesn't shed any light on anyone's alignments (it's RVS content, basically). Shorthand reads list, re-affirms Jim as a scumread.
What is this, RVS? This was 10 pages into the thread and after heydude's biglonghugeposts that I townread him over. Claims to have opinions on 4 players but no read, and a scum read on another, but no followup to any one of those players. He makes the barest meta-comments to FoU and ICT (collectively) and doesn't do anything that I could see would result in him getting any more insight into either of their alignments, which he also states he doesn't know. Fucking bullshit. I can't read this post and come away with the impression that 4maskwolf cares about anyone's alignment no matter how hard I try. This is what put 4maskwolf into scum in my longform reads on page 28, and 4maskwolf totally ignores Toaster's question about it.
I am smart and good with computers and know how to make spoiler tags, I swear.
Nothing/meta.
To note, apparently I wasn't meant to be sent fries. Webadict has a 'holiday brain' as they said.
Same. FoU probably did target somebody but not us?
Same thing happened to me.
Purely mechanical information.
What I wouldn't give for a proper ISO...
Toonyman
I had a note in my file to go read through Toonyman's posts and see what I thought of them, and there... really isn't much to talk about, despite having a fairly normal post count and several reasonably long posts. I only found three posts with anything of value, which I've listed below, but in summary: he thinks heydude's actions are anti-mafia, he thinks heydude and icy aren't on the same scumteam, and he has a small reads list in his most recent megapost. I'm excluding the meta bickering with dolores because frankly it's just uninteresting butting of heads, and the rest of it is just various mockery, grumbling, and aggravation. His early posts in the thread were thoroughly uninspired, little more than jumping on the spastic newbies and asking a couple customary RVS questions before following the spazzes down the rabbithole. As mentioned, his most recent megapost feels better, but all in all he still feels like a scum phoning in D1.
-[-spoiler=Only Things of Interest-]-
-[-/-spoiler-]-
notquitethere has been added to my townpile for time being. Despite his whole "oh I don't play D1" schtick he's actually got more content of more value than most of the other players, focused around actually playing the daygame rather than mucking about in the mechanical weeds that we'll barely be able to even see, much less understand.
Also, NQT, I'm curious why you thought my case on FoU could actually go anywhere quite a while after FoU had changed tact from the thing I voted him for.
That's all for now, I have more thoughts but I need to reread a previous game to contextualize one of them.
(I had to rip the spoiler cos B12 hates nested spoilers and it's long and irrelevant (to my case) - it's nothing but unedited toonyman posts)
In order: a (imo)
bad case on Toonyman that I find highly suspicious, a whatever townread on NQT, an indictment of NQT for following along with 4maskwolf's case for longer than 4maskwolf did, a promise to reread.
All I can really say is wait till night to off me, since I can then make the No Bonk Badge available, as well as buy it and send it to another person.
I thought you said you needed to kill me to do that?
If you die, I get the hat you have. If you didn't have a hat, there would be no reason for your death. The Badges are completely separate from the number of hats I have. Put simply it's a 2/3 chance of me getting a hat that will keep me and others alive. In case of Ice, I can easily apply priority to it and intercept for someone. In the case of Brewer, I gain the ability to roleblock. In the case of Dweller, it's a loss for me. Sure it can give me badges, but it can also give tech or guns. The latter isn't that great for me, since that reduces the number of town more often than Mafia. More likely it would just become a town tool to learn things early rather than normal lynches.
Does your entire role just exist to fuck with the game mechanics and encourage you to do anti-town things?
There's no way you can convince me 4maskwolf thought this question was going to go anywhere. You can tell that 4maskwolf doesn't think that Tric isn't town, which I assumed and can easily accept was because he has the same sort of experience as myself and ICT with seeing Tric pull this kind of bullshit. Maybe he leaned into it slightly harder because he's scum, but that's way too nebulous for me to doubt that 4maskwolf wouldn't know to expect this kind of shit from Tric based on what Tric's claimed about his role so far.
The question itself adds nothing to the game, though.
-[-spoiler-]-Alignment: Survivor
Wincon: You win if you are alive when the game ends.
Alignment: Watcher
Wincon: You win when the game reaches Day [day_number].
Alignment: [alignment_type]-Ally
Wincon: You win when [alignment_type] wins.
Alignment: Brother
Wincon: You win when [player_name] wins.
Alignment: Outsider
Wincon: You win when [other_wincon] is accomplished.
-[-/-spoiler-]-
Eh, do these not count? I will admit that having other players have hats makes Tricmagic a pseduo-executioner, but all it means is that you have to take his reads with a grain of salt. It's not the most disruptive thing in the world, is it?
I looked at those but none of those strike me as unfriendly to the scum team, which is what TricMagic claimed.
Town-ally or brother to a known townie would be, but town ally is basically a bastard mod wincon and there aren't any innocent childs this game.
Lame mechanical elaboration on an offhand comment that's irrelevant to the actual game. Are you trying to tell me that 4maskwolf seriously considered/considers TricMagic to be a town-ally or brother to a known townie (all of nobody, there are no mechanical clears)? No? Then this is nothing related to anyone's alignments (or roles/mechanics, even).
Leafsnail feels like a combination between old-school "tunnel at cases from untouched angles" Leafsnail with Para 25 "low effort" Leafsnail. Don't have enough experience with him to know what exactly that means. Moving him down to my neutral pile for now.
Luckyowl is doing that thing again where they're either trying to mimic the veterans without understanding the context or is just playing parcheesi in the corner while the rest of us are playing chess. Sadly, this lines up pretty well with what I expect from a town Luckyowl, and frankly if there were any veterans on a scumteam with lucky I don't think we'd be seeing the play from them we are. Town.
Vector:
4maskwolf - lurking with an RVS vote when the game has moved on long ago. I actually think I've played with this player before and although they're usually somewhat disengaged, it's not this disengaged. This read is softer than the other ones on the list.
Have we played together? I honestly don't remember which game that would have been.
In order: comment on Leafsnail's alignment (neutral), comment on luckyowl's alignment (town), nothing-nothing question about meta to vector.
No questions to players, no development of a case on these players. Particularly bothersome is saying he doesn't know how to feel about leafsnail and giving him a neutral read, then doing nothing to follow up on it or change it.
4maskwolf: do you wanna play parchesi with me? I'll start with a simple question. Who do you think might be the Mafioso?
Okay yeah if I'm gonna roast people I deserve to have it thrown back in my face.
So far my scumpicks are Jim Groovester and Toonyman. Toaster and Nirur Torir have managed to slip beneath my notice this game and I need to go take a look over them later today. Others are all neutral, town, or Fallacy who I need to give a full reread to.
Two scumpicks now, after the bad case on Toony. Still hasn't done anything to develop his read/case on Jim, which was an unelaborated gut-tell he never voted on.
EBWOP: And Tricmagic, whatever is going on there. I kinda skimmed over a lot of his and Fallacy's early posts because they were spastic and weird and now I have to go reread them again.
Another 'no read till I re-read'.
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Topic: BYOR 15: Game Over - Mafia Win (Kinda?) (Read 100865 times)