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Author Topic: Tutorial : Stone Organization  (Read 2266 times)

sphr

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Tutorial : Stone Organization
« on: November 29, 2007, 09:35:00 pm »

Tutorial : Stone Organization aka How to make your mason use the right stone.

This is something that I feel may be useful to some new/learning players, so I thought I'll share this and also to see if there's any improvements that can be made.

Problem :
===============
1. You got stones everywhere.  Stones piling in newly dug rooms and corridors.  And stones of all kind.  It seems that no matter how big a stone stockpile you make, it overflows too quickly.  Besides, a room cleared of stones looks much nicer.

2. You want to make high quality obsidian furniture.  But due to shortest absolute distance search used by Mason's workshop, you need to maintian a stockpile of the required stone nearest to your mason.  But you will probably want a way to easily swap the "active" stone type easily without any long distance hauling.


The Solution?
===============
What I managed to came up with is a mixture use of stockpile take-orders, garbage zones and haulers.  It is a system that potentially has the following benefits:

1. makes dumping stone somewhat easier (instead of hunting all over the place to dump stone, you always dump and re-claim stone in the same area)
2. makes it easier to switch "active" material for mason's Workshop.

The basic setup:
===============
with a sample 9x9 room size.  feel free to adjust size yourself, also the level order can be reversed.

level z : Mason's Workshop (Or Mechanic's workshop if you want to)

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wmmm......W
Wmmm......W
Wmmm......W
W...W+W...W
W...+X+...W
W...W+W...W
W.........W
W.........W
W.........W
WWWWWWWWWWW


W = wall
m = mason's workshop
+ = door
. = floor
X = up/down stairs

level z-1 : "Active" stone stockpile.

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wsss......W
Wsss......W
Wsss......W
W...W+W...W
W...+X+...W
W...W+W...W
W.........W
W.........W
W.........W
WWWWWWWWWWW


s = "active" stone stockpile.  (don't need to be too big.  but if your mason work faster than you hauler, you should increase the size).  Set this stockpile to reject all stone types for now.


level z-2 : "Reserve stone stockpiles"
This sample stores unlimited number of 4 stone types.  You can use smaller or larger stockpiles depending on the stone type mix of your region.  You can create more reserve stockpile levels below this one to store even more stone types.

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wa11111b22W
W111111222W
W111111222W
Wc33W+W222W
W333+X+222W
W333W+W222W
W333d44444W
W333444444W
W333444444W
WWWWWWWWWWW

1 = stone stockpile 1.  Set to only store a particular type of stone (or types of stone that you don't want to distinguish between).  (Note that this is not a rectangle.  It excludes the top left square)
2 = stone stockpile 2.  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
3 = stone stockpile 3.  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
4 = stone stockpile 4  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
a = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing for now.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 1.
b = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 2.
c = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 3.
d = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 4.

For each reserve stockpile, set the "active" stockpile from the previous level to "take from" it.  (recall that a stockpile can take from many other stockpiles but each stockpile can only be taken from one other stockpile).  At the end of the day, the "active" stockpile should have a "take from" entry to all "reserve" stockpiles.

note: The "stack" square associated with each stockpile is where we will "stack" stones of that type when the reserve stockpile is overflowing.

The operation
===============
1. As you discover new stone types, set one of the reserve stockpiles to collect that stone type.
2. When a reserve stockpile is overflowing/full, change the zone type of the associated "stack" square to garbage (and make sure you have no other active garbage zones/normal dumping jobs going on!).  Then just dump the stones in the associated stock pile (which should be easy since they are laid out in a nice grid).  You can turn this on for the most abundant stone type in you latest digging operation.
3. Remember to turn "off" the "stack" square's garbage state when you no longer need it.

Check Point: so far, we have a way of collecting stones and laying them out in an organized fashion.  Each "reserve" stone stockpile act as a ready source of the chosen stone type.  If a stockpile is almost empty, just reclaim several stones from the associated "stack" square.  If it is getting full, activate the associated "stack" square's garbage status and start dumping stones from the stock pile.  There is no need to dump stones elsewhere as if there's empty space on the stockpile, the haulers will haul the stones to it eventually.

4.  Now, to choose the active type of the stone for your mason's workshop, just set the "active" stockpile's accepted rock type(s) to one of the "reserve" stockpiles' rock type(s).  As soon as you do, haulers should start filling the active stockpile.  As long as active stockpile is not empty, your mason should only use the stones there (provided there are no closer source of stones elsewhere/above the workshop).

5. Changing the active type of stone is as easy as setting the accepted rock types to some other type.  Give it some time to allow haulers move the now unneeded stones back to reserve stockpiles (remember to ensure there;s enough empty space for them!) and to move the now wanted stone types to the "active" stockpile.  After that, you can resume operations in your mason's workshop.


==end of tutorial===

Hope this is useful to somebody.
Feel free to comment on/criticize any shortcomings.

regards

(edit: forgot to put in the code tags to make the plans use monospaced font)

[ November 29, 2007: Message edited by: sphr ]

schm0

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 11:06:00 pm »

That was very confusing, and I've been playing DF for almost 9 months.

An easier method is to plop a mason's workshop down next to the stone type you wish to use.  :)

Also, slow the growth of your fortress, take your time and plan it out. Only mine (and process) what you need. Why dig down 15 Z-levels and work your way up?

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schm0
-------------
Nuk: lol schm0, u r da funnay
Nuk: i lik u

sphr

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 11:31:00 pm »

The actual operation is actually much simply that it looks (I can't really describe it well in text).  Choosing a active new rock type = just going to active pile and setting the rock type.  It's really hard for me to see as more complicated than "building a new mason's workshop right next to rock pile" approach.  

Besides, you get the benefit of a fortress clear of stray stones lying around. And since garbage dump can stack items indefinitely, all the extra stones just occupy one square, which can be reclaimed/forbidden with a single designation command.

lol.. but if you find no problem with stones, then I think this is something not useful for you.  For others who are always troubled by stone use, this is just a potential solution that you may want to try to see if it's better. (I never say it's good or acceptable for everybody.  I just say it seems good for *me*.).

Name Lips

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 11:51:00 pm »

I have lots of microline (blue) and orthioclase (yellow) stone on my map. I just designated a couple of stone piles outdoors for each of them. Outdoors you have as much room as you want and you don't have to bother digging specialized rooms.
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Karlito

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 12:04:00 am »

Yes but this way your mason has easy access to all of the stone.  I've been working on implementing more efficient workshop design in my fortress and I think I might use this.  One question: why not put the "active" stone stockpile on level z and the reserve stockpile on level z-1?
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Plac1d

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 12:18:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by sphr:
<STRONG>
Hope this is useful to somebody.
Feel free to comment on/criticize any shortcomings.
</STRONG>

Upload a complimentary video onto DFMA and post it here. It'll be like a video commentary!
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Wiles

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 12:22:00 am »

I just put small stone stockpiles behind doors near my mason. When I want a certain stone I just lock the other doors.
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Red Jackard

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 12:29:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Wiles:
<STRONG>I just put small stone stockpiles behind doors near my mason. When I want a certain stone I just lock the other doors.</STRONG>

Same thing here except with dumps.
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sphr

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 01:08:00 am »

@Karlito
Current distance checking treat square a level below as closer than a few horizontal squares away regardless of actual walking distance.  If you use reserve below, the one sitting directly below the workshop will get used all the time.

By putting the active stockpile between workshop and reserve, it will always be closer even if the distance checking is changed to walking distance next time.

@Plac1d
might do just that when I find the time. Usually, I'm too busy... playing... lol

@Wiles @Red Jackard
Locked doors has one shortcoming : you can't continue to accumlate stones of other types while your workshop is acting on one.  by relying on only distance, the other stockpiles are still available to store other stones lying around.

ParrotPatrol

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 01:12:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by sphr:
<STRONG>Tutorial : Stone Organization aka How to make your mason use the right stone.

This is something that I feel may be useful to some new/learning players, so I thought I'll share this and also to see if there's any improvements that can be made.

Problem :
===============
1. You got stones everywhere.  Stones piling in newly dug rooms and corridors.  And stones of all kind.  It seems that no matter how big a stone stockpile you make, it overflows too quickly.  Besides, a room cleared of stones looks much nicer.

2. You want to make high quality obsidian furniture.  But due to shortest absolute distance search used by Mason's workshop, you need to maintian a stockpile of the required stone nearest to your mason.  But you will probably want a way to easily swap the "active" stone type easily without any long distance hauling.


The Solution?
===============
What I managed to came up with is a mixture use of stockpile take-orders, garbage zones and haulers.  It is a system that potentially has the following benefits:

1. makes dumping stone somewhat easier (instead of hunting all over the place to dump stone, you always dump and re-claim stone in the same area)
2. makes it easier to switch "active" material for mason's Workshop.

The basic setup:
===============
with a sample 9x9 room size.  feel free to adjust size yourself, also the level order can be reversed.

level z : Mason's Workshop (Or Mechanic's workshop if you want to)

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wmmm......W
Wmmm......W
Wmmm......W
W...W+W...W
W...+X+...W
W...W+W...W
W.........W
W.........W
W.........W
WWWWWWWWWWW


W = wall
m = mason's workshop
+ = door
. = floor
X = up/down stairs

level z-1 : "Active" stone stockpile.

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wsss......W
Wsss......W
Wsss......W
W...W+W...W
W...+X+...W
W...W+W...W
W.........W
W.........W
W.........W
WWWWWWWWWWW


s = "active" stone stockpile.  (don't need to be too big.  but if your mason work faster than you hauler, you should increase the size).  Set this stockpile to reject all stone types for now.


level z-2 : "Reserve stone stockpiles"
This sample stores unlimited number of 4 stone types.  You can use smaller or larger stockpiles depending on the stone type mix of your region.  You can create more reserve stockpile levels below this one to store even more stone types.

code:

WWWWWWWWWWW
Wa11111b22W
W111111222W
W111111222W
Wc33W+W222W
W333+X+222W
W333W+W222W
W333d44444W
W333444444W
W333444444W
WWWWWWWWWWW

1 = stone stockpile 1.  Set to only store a particular type of stone (or types of stone that you don't want to distinguish between).  (Note that this is not a rectangle.  It excludes the top left square)
2 = stone stockpile 2.  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
3 = stone stockpile 3.  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
4 = stone stockpile 4  similar to 1, but for another stone type.
a = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing for now.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 1.
b = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 2.
c = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 3.
d = 1 square zone acting as "stack", set to active + nothing.  Not that this is NOT part of stone stockpile 4.

For each reserve stockpile, set the "active" stockpile from the previous level to "take from" it.  (recall that a stockpile can take from many other stockpiles but each stockpile can only be taken from one other stockpile).  At the end of the day, the "active" stockpile should have a "take from" entry to all "reserve" stockpiles.

note: The "stack" square associated with each stockpile is where we will "stack" stones of that type when the reserve stockpile is overflowing.

The operation
===============
1. As you discover new stone types, set one of the reserve stockpiles to collect that stone type.
2. When a reserve stockpile is overflowing/full, change the zone type of the associated "stack" square to garbage (and make sure you have no other active garbage zones/normal dumping jobs going on!).  Then just dump the stones in the associated stock pile (which should be easy since they are laid out in a nice grid).  You can turn this on for the most abundant stone type in you latest digging operation.
3. Remember to turn "off" the "stack" square's garbage state when you no longer need it.

Check Point: so far, we have a way of collecting stones and laying them out in an organized fashion.  Each "reserve" stone stockpile act as a ready source of the chosen stone type.  If a stockpile is almost empty, just reclaim several stones from the associated "stack" square.  If it is getting full, activate the associated "stack" square's garbage status and start dumping stones from the stock pile.  There is no need to dump stones elsewhere as if there's empty space on the stockpile, the haulers will haul the stones to it eventually.

4.  Now, to choose the active type of the stone for your mason's workshop, just set the "active" stockpile's accepted rock type(s) to one of the "reserve" stockpiles' rock type(s).  As soon as you do, haulers should start filling the active stockpile.  As long as active stockpile is not empty, your mason should only use the stones there (provided there are no closer source of stones elsewhere/above the workshop).

5. Changing the active type of stone is as easy as setting the accepted rock types to some other type.  Give it some time to allow haulers move the now unneeded stones back to reserve stockpiles (remember to ensure there;s enough empty space for them!) and to move the now wanted stone types to the "active" stockpile.  After that, you can resume operations in your mason's workshop.


==end of tutorial===

Hope this is useful to somebody.
Feel free to comment on/criticize any shortcomings.

regards

(edit: forgot to put in the code tags to make the plans use monospaced font)

[ November 29, 2007: Message edited by: sphr ]</STRONG>


tl:dr

I just restrict stones if I want an item of a particular type of stone built. I usually only have a choice between magnetite and limestone anyway.

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Wolfius

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 12:05:00 pm »

An easier way might be to build one workshop per stone category, and place a one-tile dump directly under this workshop.

Then, when you want to stock, say, Obsidian, just deactivate the other dumps and designate obsidian for dumping.

Alternativly, have a single main dump, the only one normally active, to collect stone in an area near your stone-specific stocks. Then either combo with above(for the stocking of large amounts of stone, but at the cost of some micromanagment), or stockpiles under the workshops in question.

ie

code:

███████████
█111...222█
█111...222█
█111...222█
█...█X█...█
█.........█ Work Floor
█...█X█...█
█333...444█
█333...444█
█333...444█
███████████

███████████
█AAA...BBB█
█AAA...BBB█
█AAA...BBB█
█...█X█...█
█....●....█ Sub-Floor Type 1
█...█X█...█
█CCC...DDD█
█CCC...DDD█
█CCC...DDD█
███████████

● = Core Dump
1 = Type A stone workshop
2 = Type B stone workshop
3 = Type C stone workshop
4 = Type D stone workshop
ABCD = Stockpile
X = Stair

OR

███████████
█.........█
█.A.....B.█
█.........█
█...█X█...█
█....●....█ Sub-Floor Type 2
█...█X█...█
█.........█
█.C.....D.█
█.........█
███████████

Where

ABCD = Stone-type dump


With the Type 1 Sub-Floor, just dump, claim, and allow up to nine units of the desired stone to be queued below right workshop for use. Limit orders to 9 objects at a time when the pile is full insures only that stone type will be used, even if haulers are busy elsewhere. Adding a second sub-floor allows up to 18 stone to be queued up.

With Type 2, you dump all stone to the main, then deactivate, claim, and activate the desired dump spot, befor scrolling through all the stone present every now and then and designating the desired stone for dumping(you don't need the main dump in this config, but it makes things a little easier if you have alot of mixxed stone to clear).

A third option is just to place your stone workshops over ground that you haven't mined under for a sufficent number of levels, then you don't have to worry about the Z-level pathing.

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Vengeful Donut

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 01:51:00 pm »

Err, have you tried dumping stones from the stockpile menu? It doesnt take too long to consolidate all the dolomite in one stack, all the rhyolite in another stack, and all the mica in a third stack.
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PresidentEvil

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2007, 02:41:00 pm »

I prefer to dig a vertical shaft 1-2 z-levels above a stone stockpile, and then order massive amounts of stone to be dumped into the hole and be reclaimed.

I have like 30 pages of stone in one tile   :D

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I will make dwarves purchase things with bushels of credit cards.  It will be a mockery of both systems.
It will be stupid.  But it will be gloriously stupid.

Behrooz Wolf

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2007, 02:47:00 pm »

"too long" being relative when you have 13,000 stones in your inventory.  ;-)
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Wolfius

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Re: Tutorial : Stone Organization
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2007, 03:00:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Behrooz Wolf:
<STRONG>"too long" being relative when you have 13,000 stones in your inventory.  ;-)</STRONG>


Yeah; legendary miner + lots of exploratory shafts looking for key ores, coal, and flux = fracktons of stone in very short order.

And, of course, you don't wand to, via the stocks menu, accidentally designate a bit of stone down ten levels and clear across the map when there's a bunch of it sitting near by.

Mind, it's not a bad strategy, just one you want to start implementing early. Otherwise, there are more practical alternatives.

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