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Author Topic: Feelings may be mistuned  (Read 3094 times)

0x517A5D

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Feelings may be mistuned
« on: August 18, 2008, 04:44:43 pm »

.39f

I have a strong suspicion that dwarves' thoughts and feelings are not tuned properly.  Specifically that dwarves are almost always ecstatic, and I've never yet seen a feeling below "fine."

Here's Stumpy, who lost an arm and a foot in an ambush.  As far as I know, he's never woken up since.  Last year, I decided to cut off life support, so I locked his room's door.



So he's badly wounded, unconscious, in shock, starving, and dying of thirst.  And several other negative thought modifiers:



And he feels fine.

Something seems off here....
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sweitx

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 05:50:49 pm »

I think the current happiness system is that in the past, he may have a lot of happy thought that still have a small residual effect, enough to keep him at fine.
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The toad is having a nice relaxing swim.
The goblin mounted on his back, however, is drowning.

Alfador

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 06:05:08 pm »

Either that, or he's so close to death that he's hallucinating about better times.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 06:58:20 pm »

Yeah, most thoughts have effects that can last up to a year. This time needs to be shortened a lot.
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MMad

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 06:53:45 am »

I have a strong suspicion that dwarves' thoughts and feelings are not tuned properly.

Heh. That's a more diplomatic way of putting it than I think most people would. :)
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Yanlin

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 02:52:05 pm »

"Dwarves are strange creatures who balance out at "happy" because on one hand their wife was eaten by elephants and on the other they just ate in a REALLY NICE dining room."
-shadow_archmagi

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eerr

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 06:23:48 pm »

dude in my games most of my dwarves don't even have enough beds to go around, much less smoothed walls, a cabinet, smooth floors, lots of clothes, legendary dining room "if" they're lucky.
and they get unhappy quite easy.

though i have been working on it(since i switched to the multi-z level version)
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Cryten

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 08:38:58 pm »

Happiness is a points system in Dwarf Fortress. Each Unhappy or Happy thought adds or takes away from the total happiness that a dwarf has.

Effectivly what happened is because previously you dwarf has admired some extream level of engraving fine rooms and artifacts his happiness is full. The bad thoughts hes recieved from straving dehydration and lack of jobs has only been enough to reduce it down to fine, 1 step above nuetral so in some ways that alot of sadness just there.
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0x517A5D

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 09:49:13 pm »

Happiness is calculated in points per thought, yes, but there is not a running total.

It's recalculated from zero each time a thought is added or removed.  Each active, visible thought contributes its plus or minus modifier.

But expired thoughts (i.e. after one year) have no effect at all.

Or so it was in the 2D version.

So I still say that something's not working properly.
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Toady One

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 10:47:30 pm »

There are modifiers from things other than thoughts, like owned items (so things might be buffered by all the clothing, for example).  It'd be easy to fix (I think) if I have a save and a dwarf to look at.  I'll need the region folder in some kind of zip/rar/7z, and any new objects that were added to the raw folder.  If it's less than 20 megs, you can send it to toadyone@bay12games.com.  You can also try The Dwarf Fortress File Depot which has a special section for bugged saves.
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0x517A5D

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 12:17:16 am »

I didn't keep a save, but I am recreating the situation from a seasonal save.

Clothing: X(starting clothing)X

Furniture: one -, two +'s, two *'s, and one Ξ.

The save will clock in at 21 megs, so I guess I'll figure out DFFD.

Edit: It's up at http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=451.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 01:01:44 am by 0x517A5D »
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Jiri Petru

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 02:14:04 am »

I have a fort where dwarves have no rooms, no furniture, no booze (!), in most cases no job, they sleep on a rough floor and eat without tables or chairs.

Even then, most of them feels ecstatic, because they can eat good dishes, admire a rare piece of furniture and have a LOTS of friends. Half of my fortress is idle most of the time, they just hang out in the meeting zone and make new friends. Seems like the "talked to a friend" and "made a new friend recently" thoughts just make them happy even if the fortress itself is a nasty pit.

Then there is an armless guard who spend his last few years in coma on a bed... also without any room or furniture, and also ecstatic.

I think my dwarves shouldn't be ecstatic, but quite content or even unhappy. So I agree with the OP the thoughts might need some tuning. I can provide the save if you want to.
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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 11:06:03 am »

I have a fort where dwarves have no rooms, no furniture, no booze (!), in most cases no job, they sleep on a rough floor and eat without tables or chairs.

Even then, most of them feels ecstatic, because they can eat good dishes, admire a rare piece of furniture and have a LOTS of friends. Half of my fortress is idle most of the time, they just hang out in the meeting zone and make new friends. Seems like the "talked to a friend" and "made a new friend recently" thoughts just make them happy even if the fortress itself is a nasty pit.

Then there is an armless guard who spend his last few years in coma on a bed... also without any room or furniture, and also ecstatic.

I think my dwarves shouldn't be ecstatic, but quite content or even unhappy. So I agree with the OP the thoughts might need some tuning. I can provide the save if you want to.

You know what they say, right? Misery DOES love company. >.>
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Toady One

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Re: Feelings may be mistuned
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2008, 07:55:00 pm »

Yeah, it mostly comes down to balancing the numbers, rather than a bug as it first appeared from the initial description, since the owned item modifiers are what's helping this dwarf cope.  The dwarf is quite pleased by the undamaged giant cave spider silk sock which is apparently the one that was on the chopped off foot.  There was a modifier causing some trouble that was based on just the number of items owned which was sort of silly.  After I got rid of that, the situation was helped a bit, though the dwarf isn't miserable, just unhappy.
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