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Author Topic: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!  (Read 146260 times)

arghy

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #510 on: August 06, 2010, 06:15:06 pm »

Hey combats pretty unbuggy and i'm getting bored any chance of skavens and orks?
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darkflagrance

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #511 on: August 06, 2010, 07:34:49 pm »

Hey combats pretty unbuggy and i'm getting bored any chance of skavens and orks?

You could go check out the Fortress Defense Mod for more variety and new enemies.
You're just making an appeal to nostalgia. One that's very out-of-place, in my opinion. Rushing yourself with enemies at early stages was the worst, most half-assed way to add difficulty imaginable. It's on par with ruining an RPG for yourself by grinding. The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

What do you mean early enemies are not awesome? I guess some people don't appreciate the feeling of being on the edge with only the first two migrant waves of dwarves, just barely holding on against the waves of enemies, watching the population numbers slowly decrease to attrition from the constant sieges, forcing mothers and farmers to take up weapons when your main warriors become crippled, all ending in either sweet relief when the next migrant wave pops up to relieve your exhausted dwarves, or when the merchants together with your militia barely hold off the invaders at the front gate, or when generations later, you've stabilized the fort and built a decent military, and now all that remains of those hard days are long, empty halls lined with coffins and a ledger of names of the deceased.

Some people not only like building immense, map-spanning monuments, but also watching epic fights between hundreds of soldiers within them.
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Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod

arghy

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #512 on: August 06, 2010, 08:41:24 pm »

Dear god yes i line my epic halls with the dead and theres nothing like running out of space because theres just to many dead.
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Rysith

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #513 on: August 20, 2010, 06:36:20 pm »

Just thought I'd drop in to say that I've finally moved on to the new version (having finished up my previous 40d fort), and that I will be making an Orc mod for DF2010. That said, combat (and training, and wound recovery, and etc.) have all changed quite a lot from 40d, and so balancing it is proving a bit difficult.

I'm fairly sure, for example, that it's not possible to take on the first Orc siege if they are progress trigger 1: My test for that is embarking with six military dwarves, an armorer, and the materials to make everyone full suits of armor, which is looking like it's not viable. Both the armored war elephants and giant wood spiders needed a bit of a revamp (oddly enough because they weren't being deadly enough - the new skin/weapon interactions seem to make unarmored creatures very vulnerable), and while I can test a certain amount of it in the object testing arena (THANK YOU TOADY!), some things really can't be tested other than by getting thirty orcs to attack a forty-dwarf fortress.

To reiterate: There will be DF2010 Orcs. I will be doing my best to balance them, so that they are a challenge to experienced combat players but not insurmountable with proper preparation, leading to rewarding fights and epic tales. Hopefully, I'll be able to release a beta version in the next month or so, especially as I become more familiar with the new tools at my disposal.
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Lanternwebs: a community fort
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The OP deserves the violent Dwarven equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Rysith

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #514 on: August 29, 2010, 06:48:07 pm »

Some notes on the new combat system, with which I'm becoming intimately familiar:

- Since things bleed really slowly, or seem to (I've had Orcs wandering about with multiple opened arteries and not bleeding out), no pain sense makes Orcs much harder to engage in combat.

- Skill level and numbers seems to play a much larger role (as of 31.10) than anything else. Given ten somewhat-trained, steel-clad axedwarves against a swordsorc squad, they all died horribly, primarily due to nerve damage etc. making them drop their weapons and shields. The only dwarves that were able to engage with even moderate success were the two legendary miners, who a) engaged single orcs and b) were able to parry and counterstrike a lot. Despite that, the orcs really needed to be hacked apart to die; It seems like generally things take a longer time to die, and with no pain it takes a long time to remove orcish combat effectiveness. It might also be partially due to the new attribute system, which effectively prevents super-agile dwarves from striking with impunity.

- Since Orcs are now progress trigger 2 (roughly 20 dwarves), I'll see if they are realistic to engage in a fortress that embarks on flux and does nothing but crank out weapons and armor, then recruits all migrants.
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Lanternwebs: a community fort
Try my orc mod!
The OP deserves the violent Dwarven equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Rysith

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill
« Reply #515 on: September 04, 2010, 01:41:13 am »

DF 0.31.10 orcs can be found here.

I had tried to keep them as similar to the 40d orcs as I could, but because of the changes in 31.x (particularly the lack of surface magma and new complexities of the training, combat, and healthcare system), there ended up being some notable changes:

- Orcs will not lay siege to your fortress until you have roughly twenty dwarves, approximately your first "real" migrant wave. In most cases, this means the beginning of the second year.
- Orcs now use metals up to bronze
- Orcs will now use whatever animals are available, not just war elephants, beak dogs, and giant wood spiders. Thus far, I've seen camels, alligators, and grizzly bears as orcish mounts.
- Orcs are no longer trapavoid. That doesn't mean that I don't encourage you to fight them without resorting to trap corridors.

Spoiler: Orc Mod philosophy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orc combat tips (click to show/hide)
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Lanternwebs: a community fort
Try my orc mod!
The OP deserves the violent Dwarven equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Jayce

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #516 on: September 04, 2010, 05:34:01 pm »

I kinda like the idea of if you pick an evil location creatures like zombies and werewolfs will attack you instead of goblins.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #517 on: September 04, 2010, 05:35:19 pm »

Ah Orcs, good memories.
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Still Standing

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #518 on: September 04, 2010, 08:02:42 pm »

I installed this mod, added some graphics to it, hoping to get a nice challenging war game.  The only problem is I cannot seem to gen a world that has an Orc civ.  I have gened about a dozen worlds of various sizes, but I just can't seem to get them to show up on the civ screen, even at year 1.  I CAN get them to spawn just fine in the Arena.  What do you think I am doing wrong?
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Birdy

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #519 on: September 04, 2010, 08:26:22 pm »

Yeah, Mine's doing the same, I'm going to take a look at the code and try to figure out what's wrong.

I've missed These damned Orcs, and now that the work's been done, I need them!   :P

EDIT: I just found the Problem. The new name for the "ORC" is "ORC_ORC" not just "ORC" so just go into the "ENTITY_ORC.txt" and change the "Creature_name:ORC" to "ORC_ORC".

Edit2: I also changed it so the Orcs feel pain, but everyone of them is the toughest the game allows, It makes it a bit more balanced as it took too long to kill and orc before.  I also made every orc able to destroy buildings, what orc wouldn't want to break shit once it's inside?  :P

Also, I play as Humans, and have a keep where the burrow is set up, and outskirts are the rest of the town, and when they come in they topple over furniture in houses, oooh goodie!  ;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 10:01:00 pm by Birdy »
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Still Standing

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #520 on: September 04, 2010, 10:30:57 pm »

I figured it out after about 4 hours of trying.  Birdy posted it 4 minutes ago!  I should have gone to sleep and checked back in the morning. :p
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Birdy

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #521 on: September 04, 2010, 11:39:29 pm »

I figured it out after about 4 hours of trying.  Birdy posted it 4 minutes ago!  I should have gone to sleep and checked back in the morning. :p

yeah, heh, I had the same problem with setting up the graphics for them, so that gave me the Idea to check.  (Which BTW we are using SPHRs goblins, they look a bit like orcs, and they're pretty good looking!)
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Osdeath

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #522 on: September 05, 2010, 05:13:57 am »

General query, i was under the impression the [CAN_CIV] Tag was needed for a creature to become a civ, yet orcs do not have this, has that tag become obsolete?
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Still Standing

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #523 on: September 05, 2010, 05:42:34 am »

CAN_CIV seems to be a relic of 40d and previous versions.  CAN_LEARN now allows them to civ.
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Still Standing

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Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
« Reply #524 on: September 05, 2010, 12:49:33 pm »

Since I am using Ironhands graphics pack I am using the Goblins from the mod by Phobeus to represent my Orcs.  Would you like me to put together a zip file that includes the Entity changes we made further up the page, as well as the Orc graphics (I would of course have to ask for permission from Sphr first)?
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