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[Soulwynd]

Backburner at point blank is 450ish damage from behind, shadow, not that far off. Of course, nothing beats a minigun at point blank.

I was hoping the pyro would get a stronger afterburn, getting a weaker one is the only change I don't really like. I'd be fine with the time change if the total damage had remained the same, it would mean a better afterburn.

But gee, fine I lose. I don't think I care anymore. Good luck getting the TF2 team to change that back. People got the scouts' FaN changed, so... who knows?

(Btw, if you don't AB, please do try using the backburner, it does close to the same damage the original flamethrower did and you get the 90ish degrees of x3 damage.)

Edit: Fixored brainfart moment and edited something.

[Volatar]

you get the 160 degrees of x3 damage.)

From experience, it sure seems a LOT less than 160 degrees...

[Soulwynd]

you get the 160 degrees of x3 damage.)

From experience, it sure seems a LOT less than 160 degrees...

Yeah, I had the spy angle in mind and even typoed it (180 instead). It's 90 or 100ish I think. I really shouldn't be typing while I'm cooking. 

[Toady Two]

I think its all part of the UP/OP whining cycle. People will bitch enough about a class being weak it will get an insane boost/item that will make it totally dominate again. That boost will make another class seem inadequate so people will start whining about that and the item/class will get an nerf and so on ad nausea. Its really funny people get so excited about this small damage nerf(combined with a compression blast buff) considering how many other changes there were in the history of tf2 that made a class  truly subpar. Does anyone remember what the pyro was like before the pyro update that gave him the backburner. He was an underdog, flamethrower dps was along the lines of what it is today and there was no compression blast.

[Myroc]

From personal experience I will say that its a lot less than 90 degrees.

Furthermore, your argument about pyros not standing still in combat is invalid. No one stands still in combat.* Scouts are even MORE adept at dodging, have more mobility to set up ambushes, and as has just been proved, they still get more dps than the pyro does. Spies have cloak and don't have to depend on hiding behind corners to ambush, plus they can insta-kill anyone from behind with a much larger angle of opportunity than a Backburner pyro, who still only gets crits from behind.** The Heavy is, granted, slower than the pyro, but neither of them has any special abilities to set up ambushes, and Heavy ambushes are far more effective than a Pyro's ever will be.

*With the possible exception of the engineer.
**And no, crits with a flamethrower at point blank range does not always mean death. I speak of personal experience.

[Soulwynd]

I got really ticked by the FaN changes to be honest, since it hardly forces a nature anymore unless you're at close to point blank range and even so it isn't as good and controllable as it was before. I used to sling people up, bonk them in the air and meet them on the ground with a second shot on the face. But, *shrugs* I still try to play with it even tho I don't do as well in that case.

And dude, I already gave up, you're right, rejoice in your victory.

[Soulwynd]

It's fine. I didn't mean to be rude. I just got a lot of flaming for still thinking the pyro does great.

[Myroc]

It's fine. I didn't mean to be rude. I just got a lot of flaming for still thinking the pyro does great.

It still has potential to be truly awesome, but the difficulty ramp has been ramped up significantly.

[SHAD0Wdump]

It's fine. I didn't mean to be rude. I just got a lot of flaming for still thinking the pyro does great.

It still has potential to be truly awesome, but the difficulty ramp has been ramped up significantly.

The only reason I got all pissy is because I don't like the premise of 'pyro now requires more skill! If you want to dick around play soldier heavy or demoman!'

 Seriously, pyro does not need to be a damn 'skill class'.

[Toady Two]

I just fired up tf2 to and went on a killing spree as pyro. Switched from Flamer/Shotty/Axetinguisher to Backburner/Shotty/Homewrecker My k:d stats rarely fell below a 2:1 ratio and were as good as 21:5 at one point on Goldrush as BLU. I play for fun and don't consider myself a skilled player.

I say the pyro is fine. A theorycraft video doen't prove anything unless you test it on an acutal sever with actual competent players. The pyros main role is to ambush and cause chaos in the enemy team, not to lead charges. (though I have done that with help of a medic quite comeptently).

As it is now, if you like to airblast, go Flamethrower. If you like ambush and outmaneuver, go Backburner. If you like to w + mouse 1 go Q_Q.

[Soulwynd]

↑ = ♥

[Strange guy]

As it is now, if you like to airblast, go Flamethrower. If you like ambush and outmaneuver, go Backburner. If you like to w + mouse 1 go Q_Q.

But airblasting is very circumstantial, ambushing on a class without movement/stealth/damage related (eg bonk) abilities isn't enough for an entire playstyle, and W+M1 always sucked, and there was always far more successful and equally skill-less opportunities for other classes.

The pyro was just about a decent class with fire damage+ airblast, but now they are forced to choose between the two when neither are that good.

[kg333]

It's fine. I didn't mean to be rude. I just got a lot of flaming for still thinking the pyro does great.

It still has potential to be truly awesome, but the difficulty ramp has been ramped up significantly.

The only reason I got all pissy is because I don't like the premise of 'pyro now requires more skill! If you want to dick around play soldier heavy or demoman!'

 Seriously, pyro does not need to be a damn 'skill class'.

This.  Heck, I considered Pyro to be one of the classes good for a beginner to start on, because it didn't take too much to play on a level where they could hold their own.  And skilled players could still take the Pyro to an entirely different level. 

Now it's nearly impossible for a beginner to play.  For someone starting out with no unlocks, they have to learn to airblast, one of the trickiest things to do well in TF2, learn to switch weapons quickly and use the Axtinguisher (once they get it), or wait until they get the Backburner.  As someone pointed out earlier, a class should not be gimped to the point of being nearly unplayable simply because they're using the default equipment.

KG

[Volatar]

As someone pointed out earlier, a class should not be gimped to the point of being nearly unplayable simply because they're using the default equipment.

That would be me 

[Zai]

I still have fun with the Pyro, and that's all that matters to me.