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Author Topic: Team Fortress 2: World's #1 War-Based Hat Simulator  (Read 781025 times)

Bandages

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Yeah, I logged onto the server, and then for the 40 seconds I was playing it was lagging like a mudder, then you stabbed me and lol'd.

so I decided to play on a less-laggy server :p
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zchris13

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The server is in like russia or something. That's why it lags.
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Jakkarra

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It's in england.

Bandages

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It's in england.

Ah, I am in Seattle. So ends the mystery of the mysterious lag.
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SHAD0Wdump

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It used to be better, but now it lags like nobodies business for me.
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Sensei

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Was a while since I was on, but last time I played (and I'm in Bellevue, 40 minutes' travel from Seattle) it was fine.
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Duke 2.0

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 For the most part it is fine for me, but some things are a little bullshitty on the server. Like fire having a smaller rage than airblast, or arrows that I can see quite clearly in a persons head being counted as a bodyshot, and the usual nature of around the corner kills because of lag compensation, which is extra weird on this server.
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Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
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Ze Spy

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Ranged Weapons : 2% Crit chance

Meelee Weapons : 15% Crit Chance

just to clear that up : the crit increase is by the last 20 seconds , also , there is a reason i hate crits , and therefore play on Non-Cirt Servers , it works better and has a higher chance of owning instead of gettin' owned by a random crit Grenade that does like 300 damage

also , Duke , i remember Critting you with a random Stray Crocket while you were sitting in that corner , who told you to hide in there anyway?
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Duke 2.0

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 Splash damage I understand, and because critical shots have no falloff the entire splash radius of the rocket launcher is death. More than likely a normal rocket at that corner would have done 20 damage.

 But that is not the point. I'm talking about non-splash weapons like the minigun and arrows. Where other servers I can accept a fraction of a second where such projectiles would hit me when I leave the LOS due to lag compensation the DFC server has like a whole second of it. This may just be the distance between me and the server, but it makes me not like playing there.

 That and comp people sometimes play there. I'm not playing when somebody on the enemy team has perfect aim with the ambassador.
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Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
MIERDO MILLAS DE VIBORAS FURIOSAS PARA ESTRANGULARTE MUERTO

Mr.Person

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I agree with Greiger, crits have had a lot of thought put into them, the only time TF2 shouldn't have them is during professional tournaments when random chance cant be a deciding factor. Unfortunately people remember the times they die to crits not the times a crit helped them take out half the enemy team or gain a revenge kill on that enemy that has dominated them the past 2 games.

I dispute this notion, especially when the random chance is skill-weighted and contests are frequent enough that the luck won't decide all by itself the outcome of a statistically relevant number of encounters. In other words, since you get so many chances to kill your opponents and go for the objective, it's not necessary that every single encounter be 100% determined by player skill. It's acceptable to have some element of chance as long as the system is both favorable a more skilled player and mitigatable by the unfavored player through skill. Getting more crits as you do more damage definitely counts for being skill favored.

That's not to say that I think TF2's crits are 100% appropriate for tournaments, though. Specifically, very close range crockets are impossibly hard to dodge and spell certain death for 8 of the classes and near-death for the Heavy. Crickies are also stupidly deadly, and most other crits (except shotgun crits) are far too deadly and hard to avoid to be called mitigatable. In more cases, getting hit by a crit means you die, and if you're not dead, you're very close. But the point I'm trying to make is, deterministic winner-favouring non-dominating random chance is not something to automatically shun in tournaments. Look at Poker. People bet hundreds of thousands of dollars at tounraments on a game where winning or losing a hand is determined by chance alone, yet you can't look me and say with a straight face the Poker isn't a skill-intensive game. (Before anybody PM's me, all I'm saying is that no matter how you bet, despite the fact you'll lose a ton of cash, you'll still win a couple hands.)

You have to look at luck elements on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, the random chance adds something to the game. Specifically, if a skilled player can overcome the advantage the dice have given their less skilled opponent, then you're really only changing the path to victory, not the fact you actually won. A highly varied number of situations for the player to overcome is indicative of a fun and highly skill-intensive game.

So I think the crits system could be improved in many ways. The most important one boils down to changing it so you have a 7% to 10% chance of a mini-crit, but as you do more damage, more and more of those mini-crits get turned into full crits. That way, skilled lucky players get rewarded with cool kill-streaks while less skilled players still get chances to take down more skilled players, just not in an "I crit, you die" kind of way, it's more of an "I mini-crit, making up for the attacks I missed with earlier" deal.
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

Jreengus

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The problem with crits in tournaments is that they can decide who wins with skill taking no part in it. In poker luck determines how strong a position you are in and you then use skill to carry through from that position to win, even a weak hand can work well for you. In TF2 skill determines the strength of your position but a simple crit can wipe all that away and hand a win to the other team regardless of who was the better player. It's the equivalent of having poker players roll a dice when then they fold and they are automatically all in if they roll a 6, the luck is unaffected by their skill.
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Mr.Person

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The problem with crits in tournaments is that they can decide who wins with skill taking no part in it. In poker luck determines how strong a position you are in and you then use skill to carry through from that position to win, even a weak hand can work well for you. In TF2 skill determines the strength of your position but a simple crit can wipe all that away and hand a win to the other team regardless of who was the better player. It's the equivalent of having poker players roll a dice when then they fold and they are automatically all in if they roll a 6, the luck is unaffected by their skill.

You either did not read the entirity of my post or didn't fully understand it. I addressed this issue already and in fact stated outright that crits being overly deadly is the reason they're not appropriate for tournaments.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 01:58:04 am by Mr.Person »
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Youtube video of the year, all years.
Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

Jakkarra

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Crits are dumb.

Toady Two

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Servers without crits are boring.
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Jreengus

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The problem with crits in tournaments is that they can decide who wins with skill taking no part in it. In poker luck determines how strong a position you are in and you then use skill to carry through from that position to win, even a weak hand can work well for you. In TF2 skill determines the strength of your position but a simple crit can wipe all that away and hand a win to the other team regardless of who was the better player. It's the equivalent of having poker players roll a dice when then they fold and they are automatically all in if they roll a 6, the luck is unaffected by their skill.

You either did not read the entirity of my post or didn't fully understand it. I addressed this issue already and in fact stated outright that crits being overly deadly is the reason they're not appropriate for tournaments.
My apologies if I misread your post, I haven't slept for over 24 hours and am currently running purely on caffeine.
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Oh yeah baby, you know you like it.  Now stop crying and get in my lungs.
Boil your penis. I'm convinced that's how it happened.
My HoM.
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