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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 1566132 times)

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5100 on: May 10, 2011, 09:52:40 pm »

Hehe depending on how the personality of someone is he could create a shared secret. Having for example the priests of a cult know a secret would legitimate theyr power. Given that more people know then the existence of secrets you would get a ever more experienced priesthood. You could even get a "Heaven and Hell"-setup if the priests build up some kind of evil "antagonist" to give the actual religion a push. On the other hand  having multiple secrets ask the question for a script that makes the decission wich secret should be used.

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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5101 on: May 10, 2011, 10:11:26 pm »

The leader of the Cult of Ashes bestows the gift of suicide upon thee!
Is this going to become the framework for a magic system in the future, with every sphere having its own secrets, which can be used for a variety of ways, with its own risks and benefits? Like, using the secret of deformity to alter your own body, gaining extra limbs, giving yourself wings, scales, tails, increasing/decreasing your size, and doing the same to others, or using the secret of strenght and being able to wrestle a bronze colossus to the ground?
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5102 on: May 10, 2011, 10:24:27 pm »

Well maybe not with one secret but with number of secrets you could turn yourself into a dragonish thing. I would wonder if you could pray and ask for a "counter" secret. Finding a cure for a curse is often the premise or McGuffin that starts a heros journey.
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The Minister

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5103 on: May 10, 2011, 10:28:48 pm »

Do you foresee secrets playing a role in the formation/abilities/motives of cults in world-gen?

Obviously the Lovecraftian mythos is big on the "learn secret of the Old Ones, go mad from the revelation, work to summon them so they can kill us all and end our miserable insignificant existences" kind of cult, but I for one would like to find cults based on secrets learned from other spheres. Glancing at the list, I can imagine some kind god giving a mortal the secret of Happiness at which point he goes spreading it around, causing all kinds of shenanigans. And some of the weird ones could be quite entertaining- having to foil the machinations of the Cult of Muck as an adventurer could be all kinds of amusing, not to mention baffling once you make it to the head of the cult and he whips out whatever secret is associated with that sphere.

Interesting question.  On that note,

With secrets giving the gods tangible roles in the world, will the temples or religions have an increased functionality in the near future?

Will the followers of a deity have any special relation to the secrets granted by that deity?   For example, will followers of a religion seek to recover or destroy the tablets recording their god's secrets that fall into the hands of non believers?
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tfaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5104 on: May 10, 2011, 10:30:41 pm »

In reference to previous discussion, I'd like to point out that even if the "secret knowledge is inherently dangerous" thing was strictly Lovecraftian, that wouldn't be bad. Lovecraft has had a strong impact on the generic horror fiction of our time, and that is a big influence for DF.
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I still think that the whole fortress should be flooded with magma the moment you try dividing by zero.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5105 on: May 10, 2011, 10:49:42 pm »

Will there be different kinds of immortality? Like the plain old "You never die of old age" but also things like "Bodysurfing" or leaching "Years" from someone. 
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5106 on: May 10, 2011, 10:56:25 pm »

Will there be different kinds of immortality? Like the plain old "You never die of old age" but also things like "Bodysurfing" or leaching "Years" from someone. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodysurfing
I think you mean "bodysnatching". Since souls can move independently of bodies already, all we need for that is possession.
Leaching years also sounds good, but it's not something that there's any framework for at this point (as far as I know).
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5107 on: May 10, 2011, 10:57:15 pm »

Secrets could solve all kinds of world gen issues.  Anything that you want to make possible, but rare, or at least special, could be enabled by secrets.  For example, consider megabeasts.  Why not make them utter death in worldgen, practically immortal, slaughtering armies if they desire, but then create a secret given by a god of courage that can allow a hero to kill them?  That makes a megabeast slayer far more special, and makes the megabeasts more special too.

And any excess caused by secrets might be fixable by secrets.  Undead army ravaging the world?  Why not find some secret of the Sun that can banish them. Or perhaps your megabeast slaying line of heroes (secret passed down in the family) is making the nation unbeatable in war?  A secret of Lies might cause strife and betrayal in the family to disrupt them, causing the secret to die.

Secrets and counter-secrets, is what I'm saying.  Forces in the world to keep things potentially stable.  And the beauty of this is, with enough rock-paper-scissors, there's plenty of conflicts, and not all of them will necessarily take place in any given world!  By that I mean, maybe sometimes the undead army ISN'T beaten by the secret of the Sun.  It could, but not this time...

That would make for more world-types that could be genned.  AND it would allow for roguelike quests to find the secrets so that YOU can change history and defeat the evil empire.

(None of this is a suggestion, more an observation of the direction Toady seems to be taking)
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PTTG??

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5108 on: May 10, 2011, 11:05:05 pm »

My immediate impression of that idea is that-
*puffs pipe*
- it's an excellent idea and must be implemented immediately.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 11:12:26 pm by PTTG?? »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5109 on: May 10, 2011, 11:06:32 pm »

One problem with using Secrets that way Fieari is that to me there is a large aspect that the creatures that hold the secrets don't need it themselves.

I guess it could depend on the creature. Though for the most part I'd think the Megabeasts are so perfect in their design that in essence the secrets are either useless on them or already in motion.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5110 on: May 10, 2011, 11:07:23 pm »

My immediate impression of that idea is that-
*puffs pipe*
- you're taking things a wee bit too far.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5111 on: May 10, 2011, 11:08:28 pm »

My immediate impression of that idea is that-
*puffs pipe*
- you're taking things a wee bit too far.

It makes sense.

A demon could bring you great wealth... but a demon does not need wealth (except to bribe humans I guess).

A dragon could teach you the roar that gives you great strength. Though a dragon already has great strength. Perhaps the secret is that of the dragon rather a secret that the dragon contains itself.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5112 on: May 10, 2011, 11:11:21 pm »

My immediate impression of that idea is that-
*puffs pipe*
- you're taking things a wee bit too far.

It makes sense.

A demon could bring you great wealth... but a demon does not need wealth (except to bribe humans I guess).

A dragon could teach you the roar that gives you great strength. Though a dragon already has great strength. Perhaps the secret is that of the dragon rather a secret that the dragon contains itself.
Sorry, that was directed at Fieari. Your points are valid.
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Arkose

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5113 on: May 10, 2011, 11:46:03 pm »

More mundane 'secrets' could also serve as the basis of variable levels of skill and sophistication found across regions or civilizations. Some of the more complicated metal reactions might become secrets your dwarves would need to trade for or discover (maybe through research or something like a strange mood but for secrets), for example. Randomly generated alchemy recipes would also fit this well.

At the most primitive levels, a herd of animals exposed to "the secret of civilization" by a god / wizard / monolith from space might be affected by a "curse" turning them into a new kind of animal-people. They probably wouldn't be all that talkative without "the secret of language", though, unless they happened to have been parrots.

Actually, distinct languages would be another good use for secrets. Currently even though humans, dwarves, elves and goblins have their own words, everyone can understand everyone else. Maybe "the secret of speaking like an elf" isn't special enough to warrant being called a secret, but "the secret language of the damned" or "the secret to making sense of kobold utterances" might work.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #5114 on: May 10, 2011, 11:58:34 pm »

 
  My immediate impression of that idea is that-
  *puffs pipe*
  - you're taking things a wee bit too far.
 
 
  It makes sense.
 
  A demon could bring you great wealth... but a demon does not need wealth (except to bribe humans I guess).
 
  A dragon could teach you the roar that gives you great strength. Though a   dragon ali thinkready has great strength. Perhaps the secret is that of the   dragon rather a secret that the dragon contains itself.
 

For a dragon, knowledge itself could be enough to go on a killing spree. See if the word reaches the dragon that someone has "great power" he could come to the conclusion that said secret could be dangerous to himself. For short Worldgen gets suddenly more interesting. Same would be true for many others too.

Arkose animal-people curses (well curse depending on who it hits) is i think something the elven Forrest-spirits have as it appeared in Threetoes story "Root". As i see it "secrets", like poisons, only affect bodys so no alchemy, how far you can manipulate Knowledge and souls is a different issue though. 

Oh and actually i meant the body surfing of the other wiki.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 12:24:36 am by Heph »
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