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[Jim Groovester]

No, geniusface.

If you suspect freeformschooler only because of some connection you think you see between him and kilakan (you're probably wrong about that anyway) then you're doing your scumhunting wrong.

You can use scumteam tells to help you guide your scumhunting but you really shouldn't be lynching on them until somebody flips scum. Calling scumteams is a great way to block yourself from hunting effectively.

[anzki4]

I for example believed it was very possible Meanmelter was scum, but when I didn't get much out of him, as opposed to getting a lot out of you, I changed my vote but only then.

How is this relevant to... anything. Could you explain to what this whole thing refers to?

How is not backstabbing not a legitimate form of protecting the other towns? If you're mafia, you're aiming to be backstabbing - the opposite of protecting the towns. You want them anything BUT protected. If you're town, you're not aiming to be backstabbing - you're aiming to lynch scum. In fact, by not backstabbing other towns, you're protecting both yourself and the other towns by keeping yourselves from falling into lylo. Your definition here seems awful scummy.

You realize that if person A was idly lurking in the corner the whole day, he would not be backstabbing anyone. So according to your definition he would be protecting us or...?

---

Haven’t ever played as mafia since like some paranormal game when I had 0 idea of what I was doing and should never have joined so I guess I would definitely be heeding the scum IC’s advice and basically trying to play active, look like I am scum-hunting and generally not throw out too many tells.

Fair enough. Unvote.

Now I need to do some real life stuff after which I will read the pages I missed.

[Max White]

No, geniusface.

If you suspect freeformschooler only because of some connection you think you see between him and kilakan (you're probably wrong about that anyway) then you're doing your scumhunting wrong.

You can use scumteam tells to help you guide your scumhunting but you really shouldn't be lynching on them until somebody flips scum. Calling scumteams is a great way to block yourself from hunting effectively.

Oh, so you mean

Now these is one massive problem with all this, and were it not for this I would be voting for kilakan. You should never try to link two players are scum, when neither have yet been lynched. It only helps the scum team. My strongest points here are only because of a link, and as such I plan to continue as normal, but keep my eyes open to both kilakan and freeform.
Still, I feel it is important to put these here, because now if I get killed or lynched, and later on one of these two is lynched and turns scum, my reasons will still be here daunting on them.
Don't go to bed with something on your mind!

Webadict warned me about linking players before one of them has been lynched last game, so I'm not going to go to lynch over this, but I wanted to point it out in case I get killed tonight.

[freeformschooler]

Spoiler: Flintus (click to show/hide)

I for example believed it was very possible Meanmelter was scum, but when I didn't get much out of him, as opposed to getting a lot out of you, I changed my vote but only then.

How is this relevant to... anything. Could you explain to what this whole thing refers to?

Yes. I can. During RVS, I voted Meanmelter, and I pressed and pressed like I'm supposed to and didn't get anything back.
Later, after pressing you, and going over my previous conversations and all the previous evidence, I changed my vote.
You voted Flintus during RVS, same as me. However, you hardly pressed him for information at all, and then you started having a lengthy argument with me and others.
Despite the fact that Flintus wasn't around, and despite you having clear view of everyone else's scumtells, you showed no indication of looking to change your vote. Like you didn't care. Like scum.

How is not backstabbing not a legitimate form of protecting the other towns? If you're mafia, you're aiming to be backstabbing - the opposite of protecting the towns. You want them anything BUT protected. If you're town, you're not aiming to be backstabbing - you're aiming to lynch scum. In fact, by not backstabbing other towns, you're protecting both yourself and the other towns by keeping yourselves from falling into lylo. Your definition here seems awful scummy.

You realize that if person A was idly lurking in the corner the whole day, he would not be backstabbing anyone. So according to your definition he would be protecting us or...?

Actually, he would be backstabbing someone. By lurking all day, he would hope that either
A) No one would notice him and thus not suspect him or
B) Even though people noticed he was lurking they wouldn't have much evidence against him as a scum
In both situations he can be easily passed of as a negelegent town. Then come night, he backstabs one of the people who didn't have evidence against him as scum.
A town cannot backstab someone in the first place, because they are not scum and cannot nightkill.
In this example any town is still aiming to protect the other towns way more than the guy who will inevitably backstab someone.

[freeformschooler]

Heh, I meant to say "Spoiler: anzki4".

Anyway, Max White why are you so quick to suspect me long after I was done trying to learn from kilakan? What connection do you still see there, or are you just quick to assume somebody in general hmm?

[Max White]

Quick to suspect? I read things over a few times before deciding there was most likely a connection, and nobody teams like you and kilakan team, bro. You just better hope neither of you are lynched, or I'm coming after the other, and there will be blood.
Also interesting to note the 'or' used here. He is asserting that if I can't bring in even more evidence, the other option is that I was quick to go pointing fingers.
Evidence from the very first post is just as valuable as anything more recent.

[anzki4]

Yes. I can. During RVS, I voted Meanmelter, and I pressed and pressed like I'm supposed to and didn't get anything back.
Later, after pressing you, and going over my previous conversations and all the previous evidence, I changed my vote.
You voted Flintus during RVS, same as me. However, you hardly pressed him for information at all, and then you started having a lengthy argument with me and others.
Despite the fact that Flintus wasn't around, and despite you having clear view of everyone else's scumtells, you showed no indication of looking to change your vote. Like you didn't care. Like scum.

Oh. It was an example "how things should be done." IMO, it's quite scummy to say "look I did it right, do it like me", unless your IC.

BTW, this thing of your is awfully conflicting. First you accuse me being scummy, because I changed my vote after one question. Then you accuse me for being scummy, because I did not change my vote before getting an answer. Care to elaborate?

You realize that if person A was idly lurking in the corner the whole day, he would not be backstabbing anyone. So according to your definition he would be protecting us or...?

Actually, he would be backstabbing someone. By lurking all day, he would hope that either
A) No one would notice him and thus not suspect him or
B) Even though people noticed he was lurking they wouldn't have much evidence against him as a scum
In both situations he can be easily passed of as a negelegent town. Then come night, he backstabs one of the people who didn't have evidence against him as scum.
A town cannot backstab someone in the first place, because they are not scum and cannot nightkill.
In this example any town is still aiming to protect the other towns way more than the guy who will inevitably backstab someone.

But the problem is you don't know who is town. And backstab means - if I am not completely mistaken - betray, not (necessarily) nightkill. And no, if town is lurking or idling whole day (therefore he cannot do anything during the night), he is not backstabbing anyone. So I ask you again, does this mean that he is protecting town, by idling?

Anyway, Max White why are you so quick to suspect me long after I was done trying to learn from kilakan? What connection do you still see there, or are you just quick to assume somebody in general hmm?

This seems very scummy to me. "Tell me what connection do you still see between us, so I can cut it quickly." And now your "done trying to learn from kilakan"? This too seems like screaming: "We have no connection anymore! Stop accusing me about it!"

[Meanmelter]

So thee people have stood out to me, one of them very understandable, two of them not so much, but I think I should still bring them up. Vector and Jim have both seemed to advise that massive walls of text analysing every post arn't productive, and tend to get over looked, so I shall bring forward anything I think is realy significant that is new...

Meanmelter
Wow, this guy has sort of stepped into hot water. Normally I would look at he's case as being newbie mistakes, but there is something scummy about him that I haven't seen in anybody else here.

I was going to see if he was going to state that he was not a scum or say something relevant to that. Perhaps even vote against someone else and accuse them of being scum. IT is RVS. I can change as I please. I believe.

This is a rather angsty reply to an IC.
Now normally a new player is faced with the task of finding scum, through means not understood to them, and they have to do it well or get voted out. A daunting task, and to make it worse they don't have a friend in the world, except the IC's... As such the normal response is to either be very willing to listen to the IC's, as they offer the only source of security, or be super paranoid and suspect the IC's more than anybody, as they are the biggest threat.
The fact that Meanmelter is giving a similar reply that a rebellious teenager would give their parent when asked to clean their room indicates he has another IC to listen to for advice, he doesn't feel compelled to hug up to the IC's, or destroy them, he feels he has the support to do what ever the hell he wants.
There has been other points against him, but they have been made.

So your basing my whole scummyness because I gave a temper tantrum to the IC and that your punishing me by voting me in hopes I will get timeout and have to sit in a corner until I learned my mistake? No. I do understand the IC's are here as our guide into helping us find the scum on this planet, but that doesn't mean all of us enjoy them telling us what we should and shouldn't do.
Now the whole part about a rebellious teenager totally confused me.
But I'm still reassuring your scum. I mean, after I voted at you from something you said earlier that I just didn't like. You decide to vote back against me and make a horrible excuse that I am scum because I didn't comply with the IC? That is totally a scum move. You've also posted more than the least of us. Both you and Anzki4 and your both totally appear quite scummy. You've also haven't mentioned anything towards Anzki4 directly about his latest actions. I'm not implying that he's your scum-buddy or anything, but why not? I mean, you had barely anything to accuse me of being scum, but you have nothing on Anzki4?

Freeformschooler Why should I change this vote?

Not to answer for him but I can't resist.  Why don't you tell me?

This looks like scum trying to protect he's newbie buddy from a tricky question.
Also, scum tend to vote together d1

I do have to admit, it does look like Kilakan is trying to change the subject.
But at the same time, that is a horrible question, and I didn't have much to back it up with.
I also disagree with your last statement. If anything, a scum would vote against a scum to make himself look less suspicious.

2 ninja's

[Flintus10]

Ugh looked over this thread so many damn times and just nothing is jumping out at me still here goes

Freeform twice now you have been accused of buddying up with Kilakan and you still haven’t really said anything about it, other than oh that’s just what I am like. Is that really all you have to say about it? 

Also Kilikan why is it that twice now you have deflected questions that were directly asked of Freeform?

Freeformschooler Why should I change this vote?

Not to answer for him but I can't resist.  Why don't you tell me?

Fine. Kilakan, why should I change this vote?

You need to lay off on the snarky responses boy-o.  But since you asked, I'd say you changed the vote in a retaliation for him voting you, and you not being able to worm your way out of it, so you are voting him in the hopes he scares easily and will back off.  Something I'd say is a pretty god damn scummy move.

And

And Freeformschooler You have definitely posted a lot and remained active but a lot of what you have said is either useless or the restatement of someone else’s point. Now correct me if I am wrong but that seems like the actions of a new scum player trying (and failing) to seem genuine does it not?

You are wrong, simply because trying to draw anything out of that is likely to end in a WIFOM.  Not to mention that the restatement part has already been addressed, but i am sure you will get to that.

Wait does that make what you just said about restatements a restatement.... ow my head.

Why can’t you just let the guy fend for himself?
I believe that one of you is scum and buddying up to the other and the fact is right now Kilikan looks like he is doing more for the town while the content coming from Freeform is a lot more meaningless or has already been said so it really does seem he is posting just to appear active.

FREEFORM What do you believe your contributions to town have been so far?
KILAKAN Why did you protect Freeform both of those times?

Also as a side note Deadmeat you said this earlier.

Well I don't suspect any of the currently active people. Rightly or wrongly. I can't make a decision until I have all the information on people possible.

Well a whole lot has been said since then so who exactly are your suspects right now?

KilaKan, what are you thinking of Flintus10, now that he has arisen from his long slumber.

Probably better to ask the two people voting him, especially the one who was waiting around for him to start playing the game.

I'll have a closer look later, he is obviously sly, even if he were a scumbag it wouldnt be evident at first.

Also what the hell makes me sly? Not being at a computer?

[breadbocks]

Daaaaarviiiiii, I'mmmm waaaaaitinnnnng....



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̸̵͙͉̠̻̦͔̃͞s̡͙̈́͌̾̃̂͌̾͞o̷̠͔̩͕͙̗͇̪ͭ̅̔ͪ̐̈́̃͟ ̹͉̯͖̬̱̜ͮ́l̵̤͙̭͓̖̓̔̚o̵̹̤͓̬͖̾ͭͣͯ͊͗͛̋͘ͅn̸̨̠̓̀ͥ͛ͤͣ̚g̸̸̓ͣ͏̠̳.̶̡̛͔̺̭̘̖͖̍ͣͪ͗͒̍.̖̹̊͂̈ͯ̎̚.̨̬̪͕͒͆ͥ̊.̨͙̞̥̘̾̔ͥ̽̾̑

[Max White]

So your basing my whole scummyness because I gave a temper tantrum to the IC and that your punishing me by voting me in hopes I will get timeout and have to sit in a corner until I learned my mistake? No. I do understand the IC's are here as our guide into helping us find the scum on this planet, but that doesn't mean all of us enjoy them telling us what we should and shouldn't do.
Now the whole part about a rebellious teenager totally confused me.
But I'm still reassuring your scum. I mean, after I voted at you from something you said earlier that I just didn't like. You decide to vote back against me and make a horrible excuse that I am scum because I didn't comply with the IC? That is totally a scum move. You've also posted more than the least of us. Both you and Anzki4 and your both totally appear quite scummy. You've also haven't mentioned anything towards Anzki4 directly about his latest actions. I'm not implying that he's your scum-buddy or anything, but why not? I mean, you had barely anything to accuse me of being scum, but you have nothing on Anzki4?

Well no. I'm voting for you partly because of other reasons people bought up, if you would like me to go get some of their quotes I will. But yes, you acted in a way that is out of line with other townies, leading me to think you are not a townie. I wonder why you would imply it is my only reason?
Also note the deflection onto Anzki4. While there are some reasons against Anzki4, he's actions are closer in line with a townie who isn't exactly sure of what they are doing.

I do have to admit, it does look like Kilakan is trying to change the subject.
But at the same time, that is a horrible question, and I didn't have much to back it up with.
I also disagree with your last statement. If anything, a scum would vote against a scum to make himself look less suspicious.

2 ninja's

Hmm, funny, as Kilakan didn't think the question was so horrible. In fact, when asked the pretty much the same thing, he was willing to answer it! Although in a way that defended freeform from he's attacker.

Freeformschooler Why should I change this vote?

Not to answer for him but I can't resist.  Why don't you tell me?

Fine. Kilakan, why should I change this vote?

You need to lay off on the snarky responses boy-o.  But since you asked, I'd say you changed the vote in a retaliation for him voting you, and you not being able to worm your way out of it, so you are voting him in the hopes he scares easily and will back off.  Something I'd say is a pretty god damn scummy move.

[Meanmelter]

KilaKan If you were a Scum, and your more noobish Red Scum friend was falling under a trap, how would you help him?

[freeformschooler]

Oh. It was an example "how things should be done." IMO, it's quite scummy to say "look I did it right, do it like me", unless your IC.

Not so much I want you to do it like me, but I had wanted to see you scumhunt LESS like a scum.

BTW, this thing of your is awfully conflicting. First you accuse me being scummy, because I changed my vote after one question. Then you accuse me for being scummy, because I did not change my vote before getting an answer. Care to elaborate?

Actually, those both go hand in hand, but you're wrong about the second one. You changed you vote after one question, instead of pressing for more information like a town would want to do.
I am not faulting you for, on Flintus, waiting for your answer. I am faulting you for staying with the same second vote long after it was apparent Flintus wasn't getting back any time soon, and you could see all the scumtells and form your own opinion about the players actually in the game acting scummy. But you didn't want to do that. You didn't care. Not until long after the fact, when I voted for you and brought up how scummy it sounded, and you just buckled.

But the problem is you don't know who is town. And backstab means - if I am not completely mistaken - betray, not (necessarily) nightkill. And no, if town is lurking or idling whole day (therefore he cannot do anything during the night), he is not backstabbing anyone. So I ask you again, does this mean that he is protecting town, by idling?

The problem here which you failed to tip me off to was your definition of backstabbing is different from mine.

However, look closer. You're giving conflicting questions. You started off with:

You realize that if person A was idly lurking in the corner the whole day, he would not be backstabbing anyone. So according to your definition he would be protecting us or...?

You were talking about PERSON A, who had not been identified as a town in this context, "lurking", which is something a town wouldn't want to do but scum would. So naturally I assume PERSON A is scum in your context, and give you the answer on how scum would be backstabbing in this scenario, and you fault me for it, because clearly PERSON A was town like you identified here:

And no, if town is lurking or idling whole day (therefore he cannot do anything during the night), he is not backstabbing anyone.

Obviously if PERSON A is town he is going to not be backstabbing anyone unless he leads a mislynch! So to me this whole thing sounds like you're screwing with me and trying to dodge logic itself. Very scummy.

This seems very scummy to me. "Tell me what connection do you still see between us, so I can cut it quickly." And now your "done trying to learn from kilakan"? This too seems like screaming: "We have no connection anymore! Stop accusing me about it!"

If you had read through, you would know that I openly admitted to originally latching on to kilakan for the sake of learning from a regular player, but then I became suspicious of him too. Only later would I realize how defensive he is whenever someone brings anything at all up. Max accused him of being aggressive, which is confusing because town are supposed to be aggressive, so wouldn't that mean he's more town? I can't tell which right now, but now I do think he is way too defensive. If HE was town he would have no reason to defend literally everything he sees as a slight, suspicious or not.

Freeform twice now you have been accused of buddying up with Kilakan and you still haven’t really said anything about it, other than oh that’s just what I am like. Is that really all you have to say about it?

Covered above.

FREEFORM What do you believe your contributions to town have been so far?

For one, I believe I know who's scum, and I've prepared plenty of evidence against him to show it, some of which he attempts to dodge, making him even more scummy. What about you Flintus? You said you looked over the thread so many times and yet, nothing pops out at you? If so, you may be one of the only ones thinking that way.

[Darvi]

Guys. You're making me look like a lurker. Stop it.


This is an announcement!

Meanmelter -3- IronyOwl, Max White, Vector
anzki4 -2- freeformschooler, kilakan
Flintus10 -1- Deadmeat1471
Max White -1- Meanmelter
freeformschooler -1- Flintus10

Not voting: anzki4

Daaaaarviiiiii, I'mmmm waaaaaitinnnnng....



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Sorry, you can wait a little bt longer.

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[Flintus10]

I think my vote is nice and comfortably on you right now.

Latching on to Kilakan "for learning" is absolutely ridiculous considering we have two IC's who are far more experienced playing alongside us. You easily could have asked them for any advice, they are even 100% town unlike Kilakan. And while you justify this you yet again say you are now slightly suspicious of Kilakan because of what others have said (about him being defensiv). It's okay to follow someone else's line of thinking and even agree with them but you are only reusing the arguments of others which is what scum do so that they can gang up on a player and give the appearance of scum-hunting without doing anything that would make draw suspicion to themselves.

You said you looked over the thread so many times and yet, nothing pops out at you? If so, you may be one of the only ones thinking that way.

I was referring to new evidence not stuff I could simply take and re-use.

Also you have managed to distance yourself from Kilakan amazingly quick ever since it was mentioned that you two were buddying even going as far as to say you are now suspicious of him even though I saw no evidence of that before. (Correct me if I am wrong here)