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[forsaken1111]

This is pretty typical of Paradox when they rework a major system. Rip out the old, reuse as much as makes sense, make it work at a basic level then later add details and complexity

All of Stellaris has been waiting on the "later" since launch, though.

I don't really agree. The game as a whole does what it set out to do very well and they have been steadily adding to it. It is by far my favorite science fiction 4x style game.

[Trekkin]

This is pretty typical of Paradox when they rework a major system. Rip out the old, reuse as much as makes sense, make it work at a basic level then later add details and complexity

All of Stellaris has been waiting on the "later" since launch, though.

I don't really agree. The game as a whole does what it set out to do very well and they have been steadily adding to it. It is by far my favorite science fiction 4x style game.

Yeah, like how they added -2 FTL types.

[forsaken1111]

It was a good change

[Draignean]

It was a good change

[Loud Whispers]

It was a change

[Maximum Spin]

It seems like Paradox has always preferred to court people who find complexity scary rather than people who want more. It seems counterproductive but I guess it works for them.

[forsaken1111]

It seems like Paradox has always preferred to court people who find complexity scary rather than people who want more. It seems counterproductive but I guess it works for them.

What a weird passive insult.

[Draignean]

It seems like Paradox has always preferred to court people who find complexity scary rather than people who want more. It seems counterproductive but I guess it works for them.

Multiple options does not complexity make. Without galactic topography, a fuel system, and meaningful distances, the original system was degenerative. This wasn't SotS, where different FTL types demanded and provided different playstyles, it just put hyperdrives at a hefty early-game advantage.

Restricting it to hyperlanes allows exploration of depth. FTL anchors provide actual strategic value to systems, Jump Drives are now terrify creations that provide a massive advantage, it actually matters how you explore and colonize in order to maximize choke points and prevent. While Fortresses are a bit off, the changes allow for the creation of important military worlds that actually provide a benefit other than making enemy fleets curve around it and strike anywhere else they please.

Spoiler: The Insulting Version (click to show/hide)

I guess the changes court people who prefer depth rather than people who want shallow impressions of choice.

[Putnam]

wormholes were objectively the best FTL at all points except the extreme early game

[Broseph Stalin]

I never played with multiple FTL types but frankly the game as it stands strikes a good balance between being complex enough to be captivating and accessible enough to actually play. "More stuff" isn't necessarily a positive, that said I can appreciate people being upset that they paid for a game that did certain things and they now no longer own that game.

Unrelated: Am I competely dense or is there no meaningful way to foment discord? I'd love to be able to rile up factions in an enemy civilization and capitalize on civil instability. I get that not everything can be Crusader Kings II but it would be great if more things were.

Heh, I think we discussed AI resource trading and how they hard-refuse to trade away monthly resources in exchange for one-time resources.  So no "loans", even it's minerals for energy or whatnot.  Fair enough - little bit lazy, SMAC AIs had a loan system, but at least the UI does explain why the Trade Acceptance is -1000 if you mouse over.

Reason I'm amused is that it works in reverse.  They refuse to instant-transfer even a single unit, if you're offering them monthly payments.
To the point that I said "Okay...  What if we don't pay you 10 minerals per month?" and the trade went from -1000 to 3, acceptable.

(Also the UI explanation was the same:  "Does not want to trade away monthly resources for instant resources."  Pretty minor, but inaccurate text heh)

Edit:  Also, protip that there is a relations bonus for offering generous deals, rather than haggling it down to a green 1 Trade Acceptance.  It seems pretty minor in normal cases, and degrades of course.  I haven't tested extreme values, though.

Super bummed about that. Being a creditor is my favorite thing in games like this. Alloying my patience and wealth, building my revenue streams so slowly and so precisely that when the end comes nobody really understands that the paid for the instruments of their own doom.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I never played with multiple FTL types but frankly the game as it stands strikes a good balance between being complex enough to be captivating and accessible enough to actually play. "More stuff" isn't necessarily a positive, that said I can appreciate people being upset that they paid for a game that did certain things and they now no longer own that game.

Unrelated: Am I competely dense or is there no meaningful way to foment discord? I'd love to be able to rile up factions in an enemy civilization and capitalize on civil instability. I get that not everything can be Crusader Kings II but it would be great if more things were.

Base game or modded?  And if modded, have you tried this mod, the parent mentioned in the description, or this mod?

[Broseph Stalin]

Base game or modded?  And if modded, have you tried this mod, the parent mentioned in the description, or this mod?

You are a font of eternal glory.

[forsaken1111]

The whole Potent Rebellions mod is just really great. In my last game one monolithic star empire fell into disorder then splintered into a dozen factions, 4 of which then allied and formed a new democratic federation. It was pretty amazing to watch the whole thing while my machine consciousness contemplated ending all life. I feel like hive minds and machine empires should also have some kind of unrest mechanic, like a 'fragmentation' pressure where outlying or disconnected portions of the consciousness could go rogue.

[Karnewarrior]

"Network Strain" perhaps? Maybe link it to energy, and if the empire runs a deficit for any reason the Strain begins to skyrocket, and at higher Strain there's only so many worlds you can control before they start to rebel.

It might make machine empires really dependent on energy but I don't think that's a bad thing.

[Telgin]

Unrelated: Am I competely dense or is there no meaningful way to foment discord? I'd love to be able to rile up factions in an enemy civilization and capitalize on civil instability. I get that not everything can be Crusader Kings II but it would be great if more things were.

Not without mods, as far as I know.  That may change in the next update since they're adding a new stability number to planets which was directly mentioned as leading to revolts and rebellions if it got too low, but we don't know if it'll be possible to influence other empires' planets' stability.  I'm going to guess probably not, at least for now.  Maybe later when they release a diplomacy / espionage expansion it'll be possible.  There's a small chance though, since crime plays into it and may spill across empire borders, but I kind of doubt it.

Anyway, I had a chance to play some more last night and managed to get Galactic Wonders by about 2340 and had a completed Science Nexus running by about 2348.  From what I gather this was actually not really all that much of an accomplishment and I've seen people talk about having one by 2300, but it does feel nice to see repeatable techs during the midgame.  I feel like I could probably have gotten it 20 years sooner if I hadn't played life-seeded though, due to the dearth of unity that kept me from getting the needed ascension perks.  Maybe I should have played taller, but I'm pretty sure the mineral and science gain from the systems I took is worth the +80% or so to tradition costs I accrued that way.  Honestly, I probably should have just skipped droid colonizing nearby world for minerals, since that had a much bigger impact on unity and research for comparatively little gain.

Life-seeded coupled with some of my choices is going to make this a very interesting late game, and I'm very worried about my economy.  I'm pulling in about 300 minerals per month without edicts, but my energy is actually about -10 per month without edicts.  The problem with that is that my navy is also tiny at about 80 ship size units and 10K fleet power.  If I can barely afford this fleet, I don't know what I'm going to do when the crisis hits, especially since I cranked the difficulty up to 2x crisis strength.  Penetration battleships with Galactic Defender will probably work, I guess.  More immediately, the khan showed up last night right as I had to go to bed, and I'm reasonably sure the khanate fleets will be enough to crush my navy if they get close enough...