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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1678508 times)

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8610 on: April 10, 2020, 12:36:29 pm »

The Borg absolutely stop assimilating a target or change their immediate goals if, for instance, the current focus becomes more costly to assimilate/wage war against than it's worth.

Captain Janeway, for instance, convinces the Borg like, every 5 episodes or so to stop assimilating them because the immediate gains don't outweigh the immediate cost. So yeah if a civilization resists in a non-futile manner they would reconsider. War Exhaustion means different things for different races.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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Sartain

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8611 on: April 10, 2020, 12:38:56 pm »

War Exhaustion means different things for different races.

Which is likely also why it isn't called War Weariness or Public Outrage at Genocide or whatnot, and War Exhaustion being the most neutral wording they could think of in that regard.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8612 on: April 10, 2020, 01:05:13 pm »

An important aspect of it is whether the nation is "at war" for the purposes of signing defense treaties (or being forcefully vassalized).  Fluff-wise the war might still be on, it's just that the chaos of the situation has given way to a temporary detente.  New de-facto borders are drawn, and both states are recognized as sovereign enough to sign agreements without explicit duress.

Because wanting to swoop in and interfere with a war is something you're supposed to declare beforehand by "guaranteeing independence", which costs influence because you're establishing an international policy.  You *can* still screw with an existing conflict with your own casus belli, which I have done to save minor states, but you don't get treated as a savior or gain a vassal for it because you didn't go through the proper channels.  You didn't make a promise or a warning, so it just looks opportunistic (and likely is).

But during a period of truce (white peace) you can totally offer protection (or "protection" $_$) against the next wave, and be taken seriously.

Edit:  In current news, ancient terraforming went horribly wrong and released crazed mutants over a world.  Also flooded it from desert to ocean?  This is why planets are for the lesser species...  Too bad we can't teleconference rulership.  I presume that's how our droid-police work.
Oh but the funny bit is that the mutants are currently exterminating... droid pops.  I'm not complaining.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 01:11:29 pm by Rolan7 »
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8613 on: April 10, 2020, 01:36:34 pm »

Playing a machine race for the first time in forever. It's quite different now.

Starting with a machine planet also removes food for bio-reactors, so that's a thing. Had to settle ASAP.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

SOLDIER First

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8614 on: April 10, 2020, 02:06:11 pm »

With the amount of Generator districts you can slap onto a decently sized Machine World you might actually not need to bother with bioreactors at all.
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E. Albright

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8615 on: April 10, 2020, 02:18:31 pm »

I'm playing as driven assimilators so right now, so I started with the organic slurry site on the homeworld but also cyborgs eating it. That said, I'm currently well into mid-game and have yet to build a single bioreactor.

(I've also just founded a Federation with my fleshie militarist egalitarian neighbors who I've been at max border friction with forever, mostly just because I could rather than because I needed to, but that's another tale.)
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8616 on: April 10, 2020, 02:43:25 pm »

Yeah I feel like it's going to be a non-issue by mid-game.

I was running a -20 energy deficit for a awhile, but I was able to market-sell it away.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

SOLDIER First

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8617 on: April 10, 2020, 05:01:44 pm »

I'm playing as driven assimilators so right now, so I started with the organic slurry site on the homeworld but also cyborgs eating it.
That's both mildly disgusting and mildly interesting to think about. Logically, beyond whatever possible complications arise from cannibalism of their species (prion disease, woo!) fully assimilated peoples probably wouldn't care one way or the other about doing it, since they're too busy working for The MachineTM to worry about such things.

Although since the Organic Slurry feature is described as processed remains of biomass it might not even be an issue anyway.
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Sartain

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8618 on: April 11, 2020, 04:49:23 am »

An important aspect of it is whether the nation is "at war" for the purposes of signing defense treaties (or being forcefully vassalized).  Fluff-wise the war might still be on, it's just that the chaos of the situation has given way to a temporary detente.  New de-facto borders are drawn, and both states are recognized as sovereign enough to sign agreements without explicit duress.

Because wanting to swoop in and interfere with a war is something you're supposed to declare beforehand by "guaranteeing independence", which costs influence because you're establishing an international policy.  You *can* still screw with an existing conflict with your own casus belli, which I have done to save minor states, but you don't get treated as a savior or gain a vassal for it because you didn't go through the proper channels.  You didn't make a promise or a warning, so it just looks opportunistic (and likely is).

But during a period of truce (white peace) you can totally offer protection (or "protection" $_$) against the next wave, and be taken seriously.

I'd love if war was a bit more dynamic than the stilted "declaration of war/established peace" done now. I've been imagining a system where 1) closed borders doesn't actually prevent other empires from entering your borders, it just allows you to intercept/shoot them down if they do with very little repercussions (and you could do some Galactic Community laws on it as well), 2) Empires can always attack each others ships/fleets and invade planets (assuming their policies allow it), 2.1) once you have military control of a planet assuming full control of it is a lengthy process that requires expenditure of influence, military presence and possibly has events associated with it; and 3) when an empire fires on another empire the attacked empire can react with formal denouncement and/or declaration or war, or try and initiate more peaceful proceedings to prevent a war.
Having claims on systems would give reduced influence cost for integrating a conquer system since you've done some of the work pre-emptively, at the cost of diplomatic relations, and would also lead to less threat as you've stated your claim to the galactic community officially beforehand, instead of just suddenly "invading Poland".

I feel like the Galactic Community should also have an overall "ethical stance", affected by the diplomatic weight and ethics composition of its members. If the majority of the diplomatic weight of the GC is militants or authoritarians for example, there'd be less diplomatic impact for conquering and subjugating while the diplomatic impact of that would be great if the GC was pacifist and egalitarian.
The current "formal" war declarations could still be kept in the game and be used to lessen the diplomatic impact of your aggressive actions as well, hopefully creating a more dynamic Galactic Community. Empires would also be able to affect this "ethical stance" through the use of Envoys and favours.
For added granularity, you'd also be able to set your diplomatic stance towards other empires individually so you could maintain amiable relations with some empires while embargoing/isolating/bullying others, which of course would lead to various diplomatic modifiers. I like the current ability to set your diplomatic policy but it really needs to be possible to customize it individually
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 05:05:27 am by Sartain »
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Blastbeard

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8619 on: April 11, 2020, 07:07:25 am »

Sounds like a job for no-CB wars. Being able to attack people with no higher purpose than kicking their ass would be fun, and perhaps serve as a way to keep my neighbors' fleet power in check. The fact that they could do the same to me at any time would keep me on my toes and seems like a fair trade. If that's not enough, you could have an not-infamy system where if you wage too many no-CB wars everyone in the galactic community gets a total war CB and dogpiles you.

What I'd like to see are ways to manipulate war exhaustion, both for you and your enemy. Propaganda campaigns to reduce your war exhaustion, covert actions that raise theirs while damaging their infrastructure, and maybe a decision or edict that lets you risk your ruler's career for a chance to postpone the automatic peace-out, with catastrophic results if it fails.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8620 on: April 11, 2020, 09:07:16 am »

How are criminal syndicates nowadays?  I really like the idea, but last time I played I remember hearing they weren't very good, plus the AI at the time would spam precincts to mitigate the consequences of not knowing how to build a planet, and that made it hard to do criminal branch offices.
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E. Albright

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8621 on: April 11, 2020, 09:59:43 am »

It seems like it might be a problem to do non-CB wars from an AI perspective. Having clear at-war/at-peace lets the AI behave more cleanly, I suspect, and we've had plenty of problems with AI as is...
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Sartain

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8622 on: April 11, 2020, 10:03:04 am »

It seems like it might be a problem to do non-CB wars from an AI perspective. Having clear at-war/at-peace lets the AI behave more cleanly, I suspect, and we've had plenty of problems with AI as is...

You're probably right but honestly I feel it shows a very distinct lack of vision that they couldn't come up with anything better than the current system
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8623 on: April 11, 2020, 10:53:43 am »

I'm having a grand time as a hive mind right now.

I was sandwiched between a fallen empire and some driven assimilators. Contrary to previous experience, the machines were pacing me in every respect, including science. And I was rushing science. Anyway I figured my only choice was to chip away at them via small wars. My first war turned out to be the last one. I got lucky and caught his fleet split apart with my whole fleet.

I then found out that they had something like 40-50 planets total. It's not even mid-game yet, but that was how they were keeping up. Sheer quantity. They had gotten a pile of local events/spawns (Like the one that spawns a cluster of tomb worlds). I had to stop the war because I had absorbed 250+ robot pops and was running a -300 energy deficit. I ended up madly blasting every other product of my civilization into space to be sold to feed these damn robots while I dismantled them all as quickly as possible.

Then I found that they had assimilated 3 smaller civs, which I had newly liberated. The solution to my problem was to simultaneously convert them to food and selling the now-massive quantities of food while also selling the pops themselves as slaves on the market. That pulled my economy through until all those damn dirty robots were scrap.

I'm not sure if it balances out the moral compass that the goal is to keep as many as possible around until my next ascension perk and I can subsume them into the hive mind. I don't think it does. I guess it's better than being food. Arguably.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8624 on: April 12, 2020, 05:29:27 am »

I'm getting the warning events for a synth rebellion on this xenophobic voidborne slaver run, which reminded me that I wanted to see if xenophobes could give synths rights.  Looks like yes, but it breaks reality.

I set the AI policy no problem, which maybe caused some robots to promote into bureaucrat jobs?  Not sure, that might have been a result of the synth upgrade.  Either way most of them remained mindless servants, so I checked the species tab.  Servitude citizenship instead of slaves citizenship, but with an option for residence citizenship like other xenos.  For living conditions they were set to servitude ("Merchandise requires no goods" or something) with decent and social welfare available.  Not basic subsistence for some reason, but alright.  So far kinda weird, since those 2 Servitude settings are supposed to be exclusively for the AI-servitude policy, which I had changed.  But okay - I gave them decent conditions.

This made them undesirables. 
Still Servitude citizenship, with decent living conditions, but also an active purge.  Which was indeed happening on all worlds, kinda wrecking my economy.  Quick the citizenship tab!  Residence citizenship was still shown as available, so I tried to give them that- but clicking it just greyed it out.

I killed the game's process, hoping it hasn't ironman autosaved.  I ought to be asleep anyway.  Maybe I am :P

It was a silly experiment anyway, the optimal path is to keep them in servitude and squash the rebellion.  I was just curious...
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No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.
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