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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 964423 times)

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7935 on: January 11, 2017, 03:55:40 pm »

AND, many times Archeotech stuff is literally just a box that opens funny.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7936 on: January 11, 2017, 04:32:16 pm »

AND, many times Archeotech stuff is literally just a box that opens funny.

Yeah, they're rarely described in detail. They're almost the definition of McGuffin.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7937 on: January 11, 2017, 04:33:51 pm »

I can't wait for a half-assed 40k RPG where the freemium currency is STC Keys used to open Archeotech Boxes.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7938 on: January 11, 2017, 04:52:26 pm »

I can't wait for a half-assed 40k RPG where the freemium currency is STC Keys used to open Archeotech Boxes.

SSSSSSHHHHHHHH, GWS WILL HEAR YOU!!!
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7939 on: January 11, 2017, 05:02:45 pm »

TF2: Pauldron edition
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Andres

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7940 on: January 11, 2017, 05:10:12 pm »

Can you seriously think of another primarch, daemon-primarch or not, that got beaten by a Space Marine?
Mortarion for one. Sigismund duelled primarchs and either drawed or won.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7941 on: January 11, 2017, 05:13:45 pm »

Can you seriously think of another primarch, daemon-primarch or not, that got beaten by a Space Marine?
Mortarion for one. Sigismund duelled primarchs and either drawed or won.

Sigismund is speshul because his mythology predates the HH novels. He was a big deal in IF and BT lore when the primarchs were still opaque references in their respective Chapter Codices. So of course they had to make him better than every other Space Marine but not quite as good as a Primarch. Still, I don't think any other primarch has failed as much at everything they try to do or are supposedly masters of like Magnus.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Kot

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7942 on: January 11, 2017, 05:46:40 pm »

You see, Magnus fails because if Magnus succeeded he would break the status quo. He's just that powerful actually. Like, he's second psyker to Big E, that's crazy levels of power we're dealing with here.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7943 on: January 11, 2017, 05:51:05 pm »

Yeah but you gotta let a brother shine sometime.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Kot

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7944 on: January 11, 2017, 06:10:47 pm »

Well he contacted Big E that one time and broke all the safeguards and barriers that were on the Golden Trone portal and stuff...
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7945 on: January 11, 2017, 07:27:06 pm »

Which:

1) He ended up bargaining with a Warp Entity (Tzeentch), masquerading as a friendly Warp Entity, to get that far, otherwise he wouldn't have pulled it off.
2) Basically ruined what remained of the Emperor's post-Horus Betrayal plan by wrecking all the technology around the Golden Throne.
3) Distracted the Emperor, who now has to defend against a Warp portal in his throne room.
4) His message was totally unnecessary in the first place. If the Emperor didn't already know by some method, dozens of others brought that knowledge later. The best you might say is that Magnus' warning led to a shit load of loyalist legionnaires and Ferrus Manus to die on Istavaan IV a little bit earlier that they might have.
4) Killed tens of thousands from the psychic backwash, and blinded the Imperium's Astropaths right before the Ruinstorm was unleashed. (I think, the chronology isn't all that clear between the invasion of Calth and what's going on in the rest of the Imperium at that time.)
5) Pissed off Disappointed daddy something fierce.
6) Created the believable context for Horus to deceive Leman Russ which ultimately got his homeworld wrecked and the vast majority of his Legion slaughtered and imprisoned him in the Eye of Terror in a shape formless, feckless and insane.
7) His lasting impact on the Heresy post-banishment is visiting various primarchs/key note characters as one of his fragment forms giving them advice, or chastising them, or complicating the information they're getting. IIRC one of the primarchs, I think Lorgar, even calls him out on it during one his visitations. "YOU'RE giving ME advice?"

If you compare "desired outcomes" to "actual outcomes", Magnus was a total failure in that. I mean, if he had brazenly stormed the Throne Room with psychic powers, I'd give it to him! Bro had a plan, and he enacted that plan under his own steam. But that wasn't his plan. Everything Magnus tried to do just dug a deeper hole for him, and he didn't do anything exceptionally proactive. And that's sad sack. The most gifted and subtle psyker and sorcerer short of the Emperor reduced to the equivalent of banging on the Emperor's front door with a sledge hammer until it fell down.

I mean, I get it. They wanted to show how Magnus' arrogance and hubris cost him, his Legion, the Emperor, Terra and maybe the whole Imperium dearly. If Magnus could have been trusted he might have foiled 50%+ of Lorgar and Horus' warp sorcery and turned the tide of the Heresy truly in the Imperium's favor. But....Mangus never did anything cool or well as it bears on the rest of the universe. Yeah he did some dank sorcery in the obligatory intro invasion that makes up the first 80 pages of most HH books. But then he went right to sucking, and worst, sucking in the lamest ways possible: getting duped by stuff he should have known better about; taking the brute force approach rather than the subtle approach and gravest of all: sitting in his pyramid in Prospero having a good sulk while his world and his legionnaires die all around him....AND THEN changing his mind at the last minute, only to get his spine snapped like a twig over Leman Russ' knee. Oi vey. I hate on a lot of the non-loyalists primarchs, but at least you can say someone like Konrad Kruze did something with his time that actually demonstrated his mastery over his art. You can basically sum up 90% of Magnus' activities as "projecting his rockin' spirit body everywhere."

They want you to sympathize with Magnus' tragedy, but all I feel is disappointment and no small amount of contempt, since he created most of the problems that were his undoing.

I think Magnus would have been written better as a power-obsessed evil sorcerer primarch, if my choice was between that and the wishy washy progressive wizard with a hubris problem that we got.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:36:14 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Loud Whispers

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7946 on: January 11, 2017, 07:29:42 pm »

I just clocked, if the Emperor finished the human webway, one might even call it the interweb, how secure would it be? How would the Imperium stop say, the entire Imperium getting invaded at the same time by nids who gained access to one web

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7947 on: January 11, 2017, 07:31:51 pm »

I suspect it would actually be more secure. You could collapse any compromised sections into the warp, taking the invaders with it.

But this would result in Daemonids.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7948 on: January 11, 2017, 07:34:06 pm »

I just clocked, if the Emperor finished the human webway, one might even call it the interweb, how secure would it be? How would the Imperium stop say, the entire Imperium getting invaded at the same time by nids who gained access to one web

Fight multiple, infinite fronts in the Webway. It seems like the kind of solution the Imperium would think sound.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: WH40K thread: Happy Fistmas from your friends at the WH40K thread!
« Reply #7949 on: January 11, 2017, 07:52:16 pm »

But this would result in Daemonids.

Aren't there already holes in the Webway where a few daemons have in fact found a way in??? Like I thought it was actually pretty unsafe to travel the web way if not in a ship or something.
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