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Author Topic: Declaring War  (Read 2144 times)

GoblinCookie

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2015, 06:05:35 am »

I'm not so sure about this.  Currently, wars happen due to a clash of ethics.  Goblins and kobolds have ethics that cause them to be at constant war with everyone else (kidnapping and stealing).  In fact, you can make the goblins friendly by either deleting that tag or adding it to your dwarfs, you even get goblin caravans bringing troll fur socks in the winter (its actually already in the game, goblins are just always at war).  Elves declare war on the dorfs for cutting down trees, dorfs declare war on the elves for being dirty hippies (oh, and the whole cannibalism thing- dorfs respect remains of sentients).  Humans find slavery and torture acceptable, and don't mind if you kill a sapient for a good reason.  They also find collecting of trophies to be acceptable.  They do find EATING people to be abhorrent (like dorfs) so they often war with the elves too.  However, that trophy taking, killing sapients sometimes ok, and slavery stuff sometimes cause them to war with the dorfs. 

Kidnapping does not cause wars.  Stealing might but oddly enough there is no world-gen announcement for stealing causing wars in any case. 

Again, all of the current wars are based on a conflict of ethics.  What happens when you want to declare war on a human civilization that doesn't collect trophies? Or could you declare war on another dwarven civlization? I dion't think your Urists would need a reason to butcher the elves, but they do sometimes bring gifts of giant tigers.  My point is this, just declaring war for shiggles doesn't fit into the game wanting you to declare war on infidels (extreme conflict of ethics) or acts of aggressiion (butchering caravans).

That is easy enough to arrange.  Your civilizations must diverge in ethics sufficiently in order that declaring war in an option. 
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Bumber

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2015, 06:48:29 pm »

You don't need an ethical difference to have a war. Land, resources, or an unfortunate accident event may also spark conflict. I think the first two (grazing area, trade dispute) are already in the game.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 06:54:52 pm by Bumber »
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2015, 08:44:15 pm »

I'm not so sure about this.  Currently, wars happen due to a clash of ethics.  Goblins and kobolds have ethics that cause them to be at constant war with everyone else (kidnapping and stealing).  In fact, you can make the goblins friendly by either deleting that tag or adding it to your dwarfs, you even get goblin caravans bringing troll fur socks in the winter (its actually already in the game, goblins are just always at war).  Elves declare war on the dorfs for cutting down trees, dorfs declare war on the elves for being dirty hippies (oh, and the whole cannibalism thing- dorfs respect remains of sentients).  Humans find slavery and torture acceptable, and don't mind if you kill a sapient for a good reason.  They also find collecting of trophies to be acceptable.  They do find EATING people to be abhorrent (like dorfs) so they often war with the elves too.  However, that trophy taking, killing sapients sometimes ok, and slavery stuff sometimes cause them to war with the dorfs. 

Kidnapping does not cause wars.  Stealing might but oddly enough there is no world-gen announcement for stealing causing wars in any case. 

Again, all of the current wars are based on a conflict of ethics.  What happens when you want to declare war on a human civilization that doesn't collect trophies? Or could you declare war on another dwarven civlization? I dion't think your Urists would need a reason to butcher the elves, but they do sometimes bring gifts of giant tigers.  My point is this, just declaring war for shiggles doesn't fit into the game wanting you to declare war on infidels (extreme conflict of ethics) or acts of aggressiion (butchering caravans).

That is easy enough to arrange.  Your civilizations must diverge in ethics sufficiently in order that declaring war in an option.
To be exact, both the [ITEM_THIEF] and [BABYSNATCHER] tokens in a civilization will cause your fortress to be in a constant conflict with them as they send thieves and baby snatchers, but aside from them sending thieves and baby snatchers out in world generation, it has no other effects like in fortress mode and most of the time goblins are at peace with other civilizations. Then as a correction to Niddhogger, goblins never send caravans if friendly as they have no pack animals as the only animal they have is trolls which can't carry goods. If they were then given pack animals then they would also bring caravans every season not just winter, like how they can siege in every season. I really have no idea why that mistake is still on the wiki, I might just go and fix it right now.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2015, 06:46:26 am »

To be exact, both the [ITEM_THIEF] and [BABYSNATCHER] tokens in a civilization will cause your fortress to be in a constant conflict with them as they send thieves and baby snatchers, but aside from them sending thieves and baby snatchers out in world generation, it has no other effects like in fortress mode and most of the time goblins are at peace with other civilizations. Then as a correction to Niddhogger, goblins never send caravans if friendly as they have no pack animals as the only animal they have is trolls which can't carry goods. If they were then given pack animals then they would also bring caravans every season not just winter, like how they can siege in every season. I really have no idea why that mistake is still on the wiki, I might just go and fix it right now.

Yes the item thieves and babysnatchers operate 'independantly' of the main civilization and their hostile operations are quite seperate from the wars, which happen entirely according to ethics.  I am not sure about goblins theoretical caravans, I simply modded my goblins to have winter as their active season since it makes poetic sense, since they are the 'harsh' and 'cruel' aspect of nature. 

You don't need an ethical difference to have a war. Land, resources, or an unfortunate accident event may also spark conflict. I think the first two (grazing area, trade dispute) are already in the game.

Wars I think happen in the game according to a invisible relationship bar that is initially set according to ethics.  When wars happen in the game they are attributed to a suitable cause, there is not neccesarily any cause so we can end up with "the cause of the war is much debated". 

The reason I think the game tracks diplomatic relationships is that wars between civilizations tend to cluster during world-gen, suggesting they are a non-random event and the amount of warfare reduces as time goes on (although there is always a sudden spike in warfare once world-gen is finished). 
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bunyy

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2015, 01:28:18 pm »

+2 Definitely!  :D
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Deboche

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Re: Declaring War
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2015, 05:18:28 pm »

It's a good idea but only makes sense when you can send out armies - and maybe "follow" them to the enemy location. At this time, it'd be somewhat ridiculous - realistically speaking - to start a war since you'd just be inviting someone to come siege you.
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