Let's start off with how you started a case against NQT. You firstly assumed the Bellsounder Mafia-applying its kind of logic onto him.
How can he defend against that?
He can't. So what? I think it's still strong evidence against NQT and I'm under no obligation to only use arguments that are counterable.
Next, I repeatedly state that I believe you are scummier due to context compared to NQT-I AM NOT SURE NQT IS TOWN, given my earlier notes on him! I fairly believe that you've missed that, and instead are relying on repetition to get the point across? Or possibly, subvert what I'm trying to say to put malice into it?
It is not that, but that i have detected malice in your intent instead. I will get to this later.
You're not sure NQT is town, apparently, but you are constantly defending him and doing your best to switch the lynch to any other person.
I love how 'useless' my portable power is. That's a pretty nice deflection of a power that exists. This more than not edges me towards you being scum--other than question the point, you attack it without the essence or detail of curiosity.
I don't understand what you're saying here. My point is that the existence of a role is not a promise that that role is useful. For example: in the old beginner setup it was possible to have a Godfather and no cop. That Godfather role would be completely useless. So you cannot use "I have a protection from a kill" as evidence that kills definitely exist, much less that kills definitely exist and are used by the scum faction.
> We're freed from class everyday. Every "day" is when we are at class. I believe we may be attacked by said element when we are not at class. Remember how Toony's Love Mafia played out? The one where you won as a third-party? Relate that example.
Yes, it's certainly possible that scum can nightkill. But it's not guaranteed.
*Tiruin points to relevance. Aaaaand, your gender and stuff are in your roles. If you're not told you're Evil, you're not Evil. Have fun. Ask away, foolish fools. I'm sure I forgot to explain something.
Yes, that sentence is supposed to make you assume that not evil = town and evil = scum. But preying upon your unfounded assumptions is THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of A BASTARD GAME
I've already made my position clear: NQT = Good, players who did not receive an alignment = not good
or evil. If you were Good then why didn't webadict tell you you were in your role PM? Why would he make a special exception for NQT?
You could then ask why you, as a neutral person should vote for NQT and not me, and to that I'd point to the mountain of knowledge that NQT is sitting on, and the fact that the moderator was trying to trick you into thinking he's confirmed town. Those factors both scream "bastard scum" far louder than "three players who were told they were evil but who got no extra knowledge or abilities".
"Even if" is a real certainty. So let's say scum can't nightkill--why the heck do you think team 'Evil' is supposed to have that in the first place? Why not give note of it and refute my case there and then? "Incredibly weak" my third toe. The counterpoint you offer is just base speculation--it tried to outguess the damn setup, even! It does not directly attack my case, is what I'm saying.
The problem is that I cannot tell what your case actually is. I'm therefore just attacking the points I can actually understand. I assumed that when you were talking about scum having nightkills you meant NQT and you were trying to refute my point about NQT possibly having a conversion.
I don't think that "team Evil" is "supposed" to have "that", assuming that "that" is "a nightkill". I am completely baffled by that question because I have clearly claimed, in the past, that I do not have a nightkill and do not know who the other evil people are.
Point: There is Evil, and there is Not Evil. It is a mechanic.
Explanation: It matters to the context of Mafia. There are at least two contending sides. Best case: It matters to the game and this type of thinking is debatable.
Problem: Lynch an Evil person, let's check what's up.
Counter-Point: I am confused, partly, by this method--why would "scum" [if Evil, therefore scum] all-claim? There's the matter of the Innocent Child*, which will be addressed later.
Ok, this point arises simply because you're confused as to what my argument is. Sure, there are two contending sides: Good vs not-Good. Maybe NQT wants to righteously slay all the people who are making the world bad through their indifference or evilness.
It's possibly that neutral and evil have different goals, but I'm pretty sure that both of us are anti-Good because NQT is clearly bastard scum.
Point: Bastard game. I can sincerely doubt NQT being an Innocent Child as a bastard mechanic.
Explanation: His actions, more than my speculation-at-hand, are scummy. Promises?
Counter-Point: It makes sense however, that if the notion of his...play is discarded (this is my viewpoint NQT. Don't go ballistic on me), then the only scummy point left is that he mentioned 'hey doods, don't lynch my and info comes tomorrow, kay'? Wherein I don't really see anything wrong with letting him live another day.
> If Cult--he's the Cult Leader. We kill him, he can't do anymorestuffs.
> If Parasite (think GlyphGryph's Imperial-Rebel game. Machinator-Parasite) - Then we'd be pretty sure of what happened as there are clues in flavor.
> If scum--thrice damn this cheap play, is all I can say. But that is very doubtful by the essence of it: It would be a fairly bastard (which is more than even a semi-bastard, and webadict is a good judge of character) game to have this 'Innocent Child' be a total backstabber here.
> We have contenders against him-their cases (discarding those obv-bandwagoners [yeah guys. I am also disappointed in you for not trying.) are also of suspect to make sense for a NQT lynch. I myself have my own case to doubt him given the bastard-prospect of this game, but it doesn't hold to good logic.
This point doesn't make sense. You don't provide any actual reason to think that NQT is not scum, just reasons that we can hold off on lynching him today.
Your cult leader point is bizarre. Yes, if we lynch him today he won't be able to do anything and we win. Or we could wait until tomorrow after he's recruited an unknown person. Even if we lynch him then we'd still have to find that unknown person.
Your parasite point is equally bizarre. Yes, maybe we'd know that NQT had possessed someone from flavour. How would that help us? We still wouldn't know who he possessed, and we'd be back to square one. The alternative of "lynch him today" is clearly way better.
Yes, it would be fairly bastard if he were scum. But
this is a bastard game! webadict's sole definition of semi-bastard is "I won't lie to you". Not "I won't be misleading" and not "you can win this game if you play it like a normal mafia game".
Point: Part of your example--which is lacking in mention as you see NQT now, is that you
also blame the mods as reason to vote him. This is a scumpoint.
Explanation: If this is a scum ploy-it's cheap. If it isn't then that ONE mechanic we're all seeing and basing most things on (See: Point 1) is where webadict lied--though personally? It'd be better if he played it like Vector. "I've lied to you once or even twice thus far."
Anyway. Your whole case on NQT are counter-arguments on him, and ever since I've advocated a non-lynch to him, you've gone
hostile to me too. "Where is the questioning Leafsnail I've known and loved" holds here-you don't diplomatically assess the situation. You state in exacts of 'Town' and 'Scum'. Continued below, too.
It's like you're snipping between the lines on information that you can say-but don't want to say. Lacking wording when there's a 'feeling' that there'd be more.
I'd like to first point out you've completely failed to meet the point: explanation format I suggested. Your explanation is on a completely different point to the point you stated above (in your point you say that accusing the mods is "a scumpoint", but you don't go on to explain why - instead you bring up some irrelevant stuff about my argument style). I'm really almost ready to just giving up on responding to you entirely.
I made it clear in that point that the "maybe NQT's partners are the mods" was a speculative idea and only tangential to my main case. It's something we can pursue further once the obvious front man of the scumteam is dead. Maybe NQT is alone, maybe NQT is working with the mods, maybe NQT has player allies. Right now who cares. He's scum, we kill him first.
I don't know what you mean about "the questioning Leafsnail you've known and loved". You know I'm highly assertive when I believe I've found the correct answer - see the end of The Lonely Prince. I didn't question Lenglon, I laid out my argument and stated he was scum. Because he was.
However, for posterity-if NQT is scum (third-party or whatever), then I am fully justified in saying he's playing poorly. He gives little much amounting to NOTHING in his defense, if we discard the promise of 'survival until tomorrow' and most importantly: "this seems bad to talk about in public because [Team Evil] the scumteam are at an advantage" as a reason--and I will not accept that emotional rant he mentioned earlier as an alibi, now. I know how that feels-I've gone through that more than anyone here-and darn well does it suck in knowing he's not posting anything as of recent note.
Yeah, NQT is playing poorly. But that's not surprising considering that NQT is a poor scum player.
Counter point to that?: Team Evil has no comment--NOR is Leafsnail or anyone else advocating that WHAT NQT SAYS IS A GOOD IDEA. In bastard games, scum are almost always at an advantage given the breach in information--or at least have a greater advantage than Town in knowing what is going on!
I'm not advocating for him because his claim is clearly false. Either he doesn't actually have that knowledge and he's lying to save his skin, or he does have that knowledge because he's scum.
No. It'll make sense tomorrow if I'm still alive to tell you. You'll all be kicking yourself.
I've just realized: this is absolutely bizarre. As town NQT almost always argues exclusively with facts: vote count analysis, role flips, postcount numbers. But this is a straight-up appeal to emotion that has no logical basis, it doesn't fit with the way NQT plays town at all.
No. The information that I have is of the same kind that other players have. You're all informed minorities when it comes to what it says on your PM. Look, it'll all make sense tomorrow.
No, it clearly is not remotely the same kind of information. Other than my role I have very vague information that kindof hints towards what my win condition might be if you squint a bit (in fact, I've already claimed it and no-one cared because it wasn't very interesting). Yours, on the other hand, apparently contains devastating information that would blow the entire game wide open if it were made public (but only on day one). It also apparently specifically says you cannot be lynched on day one. That means you clearly have far,
far more information than any of the rest of us.
Author
Topic: Smster W/ Love - Game Over (Read 212276 times)