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[Viken]

I actually think the 'Overseer' class of characters won't have to deal with unemployment.  They're already employees of the cities regime.  They'd have special skills and whatnot that make them generally more profecient, and specialized, than the commoners.   Also, its more logical that a second overseer can be put on the same job with a fully staffed one to help increase the production effeciency and whatnot. 

But I do like the idea of these specialized overseer characters doing something of their own based on their preferences.  Maybe sorta like a leveling up mechanism that's tied into short, scripted plots based on the travel (or adventure) they are doing.   An example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Penny Widgetson, the naturalist, has been collecting samples of rare and exotic plants most of her life.   Even as a child she was fascinated by them.  But after moving into the hardly tamed territories, she finds that life is even more wild and exotic than she had imagined.  Atleast, until she and her escort were caught unaware by a gangle of swamp savages.  Unable to escape, they are both taken captive. 

Taken infront of the savages chieftian, however, Penny comes to understand that the savages had been watching them for some time, as the chieftian left leg had gone green from an injury while fighting with another tribe.  Using her extensive knowledge, she bargians for their release in return for healing the chieftian, who agrees.  In the end, he still technically had his leg, and it was no longer green... but he gained an opium addiction from that day forward; and Penny Widgetson started to turn her attention toward researching cures for all sort of ailments.

Penny Widgetson - Level Acquired: Medicines, Rank 1.

Yes, I used the name from the Storytelling as Game Design.  I just have no experience writing in that way.  But I imagine they could pop up as if on one or two diary pages, just to breath life and a sense of advancement into the game.

P.S.: I'mma going to check Pharaoh's Heaven out, Urist McSpike.  As for city building games, I do indeed enjoy them.  As of this moment, I got a bunch of them installed, and I play many of them regularly.  Tropico 4 and the Anno games especially.  Children of the Nile Enhanced Edition is also nice.

[lordcooper]

It would be awesome to have a plague mechanic. I want the possibility to play a very sad, perilous game where the citizens are barely getting by, as the nobles live in the rich areas highly impervious to plague due to better containment and availability of elixirs and whatnot. Then the citizens form a revolt that gets put down immediately because the commoners are dying off from the plague. And the commoners that refuse to die of hunger or the plague join a criminal underworld where they take what they need in force. The military constantly combats the strife within the city, as well as possibly other empires. It would be grounds for complete chaos. It should be sustainable for the amount of time suitable for a decent play session, unlike other games where if your city is going to shit, you lose the game.

Or, an awesome, bright, happy game where everyone lives a happy life. Nobles are rich and satisfied, as the humble commoners of the middle class work honest jobs as farmers, miners, etc etc. The military will hardly be put to use, other than to ward off attacks from wolves that roam the woods outside the city.

First concept is heavily influenced by Dishonored. 

The power of choice is what will make this game perfect, in my opinion.

What I took from this: Please let us lose slowly.

[Urist McSpike]

I actually think the 'Overseer' class of characters won't have to deal with unemployment.  They're already employees of the cities regime.  They'd have special skills and whatnot that make them generally more profecient, and specialized, than the commoners.   Also, its more logical that a second overseer can be put on the same job with a fully staffed one to help increase the production effeciency and whatnot. 

P.S.: I'mma going to check Pharaoh's Heaven out, Urist McSpike.  As for city building games, I do indeed enjoy them.  As of this moment, I got a bunch of them installed, and I play many of them regularly.  Tropico 4 and the Anno games especially.  Children of the Nile Enhanced Edition is also nice.

Pharaoh's Heaven is one that I've visited a lot, when I was playing Pharaoh.  There are a lot of fiddly details to that game that just aren't obvious, and PH has a lot of posts from people who dug into the details.  I haven't really looked at many of the other portals on the main site, but I do know they focus on city builders.  (Which is a genre I enjoy.)

Overseers...  I used that term because I wasn't sure what else fit, and I didn't see anything from Gaslamp on it; and I hadn't had much coffee yet.  Hmm...  Gentry, I guess?  Gentry & Commoners, maybe.  I do know they mentioned class (in the marriage bit, in the 'Storytelling as Game Design' post), although I didn't see any specifics on it.  From that post, it sounds like the Gentry will be your main labor bottleneck, as they oversee the shop, or grab labourers to go cut down trees; so probably unemployment for them won't be much of an issue.  But it could, through poor player design (or good experimental design).  I could see it applying a lot more to the commoners, but I'd think it'd be enhanced for the gentry (if it's even a factor).

Still, Zangi & ScriptWolf raised the idea about characters doing their own thing on the side, and you suggested a random encounter mechanic, with a possible bonus or penalty.  Even ScriptWolf's idea of the 'Breaking Bad' Naturalist could... possibly... give some kind of bonus... (Extra bravery for soldiers?  Like melting the fat off a dwarf!)  Or Zangi's idea about switching (or gaining new) hobbies would add a certain randomness to long-term game play.

Actually, hobbies are one thing I wonder about, Daniel.  The blog indicates that characters will have job preferences, but how detailed will it go?  Will there be hobbies, of sorts, or will they just be abstracted from preferences?  (Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into the bit about "In other words, someone working a job they have an inappropriate skill set for will become unhappy".)

[Gaslamp-Daniel]

You guys are awesome =D

I actually had a conversation with one of my friends for about an hour where he was telling me about Pharaoh and how the game solves a lot of the problems we're facing.  I just bought it.  Research must be done!

Honestly, the limit on the detail in character traits is processing power, not the data entry.  Every trait modifies the weights of potential objectives for each person, and these computations can get really big the more detail you give a character.  We're working on ways of making traits visible to the player as cheaply as possible.  We have Top Men working on it.

[Descan]

I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...

[Levi]

I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...

Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI.  I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.

[10ebbor10]

I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...

Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI.  I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.

Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.

[Levi]

I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...

Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI.  I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.

Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.

That is the personality traits though right?  Its not like a dwarf that likes cobalt will make nicer cobalt chairs or seek out cobalt in any way.  Unless I'm wrong, in which case that is pretty sweet.

[10ebbor10]

I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...

Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI.  I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.

Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.

That is the personality traits though right?  Its not like a dwarf that likes cobalt will make nicer cobalt chairs or seek out cobalt in any way.  Unless I'm wrong, in which case that is pretty sweet.

I'm pretty sure it does just that. Dwarves that like beds will make better beds for example, or so I read it on the wiki (or the forums).

Also, preferences also affect what dwarves choose when they have a strange mood.

[Levi]

Neat.  I had no idea.   

[Viken]

Could do it like how Tropico 3 and 4 do it.  Your character can be customized with looks and traits that affect the economic/political systems, while the citizens are assigned standard traits, and then have three of them picked out that make them the most happy should they be fullfilled.

Its fairly easy to set up a randomly generating trait system that picks from a long list of traits, its tying those traits into the systems that affect gameplay and changes AI behavior that causes the big problem while its running constantly, I believe.

[Urist McSpike]

You guys are awesome =D

I actually had a conversation with one of my friends for about an hour where he was telling me about Pharaoh and how the game solves a lot of the problems we're facing.  I just bought it.  Research must be done!

Honestly, the limit on the detail in character traits is processing power, not the data entry.  Every trait modifies the weights of potential objectives for each person, and these computations can get really big the more detail you give a character.  We're working on ways of making traits visible to the player as cheaply as possible.  We have Top Men working on it.

Pharaoh is one of, imo, the great city-builders.  Check out the Pharaoh Heaven forums though, specifically for housing blocks.  Basically, housing evolves based on what services it gets, and service buildings send out walkers along random roads; they hit a limit then turn around (or complete a loop, if that's shorter).  If you just haphazardly lay down roads & buildings, it will be inefficient.  Much number crunching was done on those forums, for optimal designs.


As for Dwarf Fortress and traits, I was wondering how much it applies.  The only things that I've known to look for are the "Likes helping others" for nurses (for prompt lunchie-munchies to the injured), or the various "Likes" for potential mayors, to avoid impossible demands.  I had been thinking of just how much it applies to individual crafts, but I've never seen any testing done about it.  For example, is a dwarf who "Likes (random weapon)" a better Weaponsmith, or one who "Likes beds" (or wood) a better Carpenter?  I'm not sure.

[Jopax]

Guys I think you're getting overexcited again. The stuff you mentioned sounds awesome but there's a point where details start taking away from the gameplay itself (like say in Aurora). Now complex personalities are all fine, fun and dandy but I don't want to have a sims game with 50 sims to manage on top of fighting off evil from beyond the edge of space while also pleasing the Empire.

Just a few general traits like favourite foods, work, locations and some misc stuff would be optimal IMHO. Influencing the persons mood and general choices they make regarding their workplace and home.

Of course you can always have some modifiers on top of that, like sanity, that could spice things up by twisiting someones favourite stuff and how they act if they're denied.

[Darkmere]

I like the Tropico ideas, to a point. Having a leader avatar who is predisposed to laudanum binges and whose tenuous grasp of reality makes him a fit ambassador for eldritch horrors could be gameplay gold. That could get pretty intrusive if it's not handled well in development, though. Plus, having Drinkey McMayor stumble into a containment breach at the sanitarium's power core through random chance and instant gameover wouldn't be fun (after the first time).

[Viken]

There's no reason not to be excited here.  Its all still in the planning stage of developement, meaning everything still has to be thought out, set down, written up and then tailored for the game. Most of what we're offering is advise and suggestions, mostly taken from our favorite city-building games.  Nothing bad or wrong about it.

Plus, it gets the entire community into the starting developement phase, meaning that when the game does come out, it'll be that much better for all of us.