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[Kanil]

Well, you could kill them yourself... or perhaps employ strategies to limit their effectiveness... or concede, I suppose that works too.

[i2amroy]

Well, you could kill them yourself... or perhaps employ strategies to limit their effectiveness... or concede, I suppose that works too.

The deaths mostly don't happen during the course of the game, when said strategies are implemented and the blitzers contained; they happen on turn 16 as you throw a final blitz on some random guy who is as best covered as I can make him, roll a knockdown, and kill my guy. There isn't really much I can do about that.

Also I did try to kill them several times, including 2 5-man fouls that last game (and other various focused attempts in my previous games with you)... the worst I've managed to do was stun them. *shrug* I mean my last two games against them were 3-0 losses, and have involved the death of 4 experienced players and 2 inexperienced ones. Add into that the fact that this last game just killed off a guy who would take me another 2-3 seasons to replace and who functioned as an integral part of the defense that I did have, and I don't really expect to have any shot at winning come week 4.

Plus, what the heck can you do to stop not one, but two players with level of skills your blitzers have? Even if I stack all my players together there's always going to be some poor sod who sticks out a bit, and I don't have anybody on my team who is both strong enough to keep them occupied and I can spare from my efforts to protect the ball (let alone the fact that they can simply dodge away from anybody I put on them).

[monk12]

Monk's Meanies 2 - 1 My Mummie's Mummies

I honestly don't remember too many of the interesting details, since I watched the "live" replay of Kanil v i2amroy right after (THE_SLAYA joined me in spectating, which was a rare treat.) The first half was decided when the Khemri attack made a breakaway down one sideline, but the new Witch Elf bravely put herself on the sideline to set up surfing opportunity; the ball came back in bounds near some elves, and it didn't take long for the score to go in. I say bravely, because I wasn't able to support her, and she herself was surfed the next turn, and wound up BH. The second half saw a designed reverse get cut off when the Assassin got KO'd, forcing the Meanies to try and punch the screen up the right side of the pitch. Fortunately, the Khemri Guards were largely away from the point of attack, and.. 4? 1d blocks managed to push a path clear for the ballcarrier. The Meanies suffered 4 CAS over the course of the game, and while they didn't inflict any on the Khemri at least they got a skeleton sent off for fouling.

The win pads the Meanie coffers nicely heading into another sure-to-be bloody match against ank's Dwarves. A rookie lineman leveled up and took kick (he's MNG though, so I won't be able to take advantage of it against the bearded menace,) and the Block/Guard lineman rolled another double, so he got MB as well. What does Hussein think he is, a Human Blitzer? Hopefully I can get him his Dodge skill before he gets crippled like Andrew Jackson.



Re: Kanil's Killer Blitzers, screen them off or otherwise tie them up with useless linemen, and when you can, Do Unto Others before they Do Unto You. Yes, it probably means passing up a more strategic hit to advance the play in order to put the blitzers on the turf and hopefully in the KO/CAS box, but those two blitzers are basically the whole team. Skitterscamps snowballs, the game goes to whichever team still has useful players on the last drive, and you don't have to hurt many Skaven before he's down to goblinfolk.

Try not to stand next to the Troll with anyone you like, either; IIRC he had the rotter kill, a CAS that regenerated, and a KO all in important situations. Sometimes Big Guys do that, sometimes they pick their nose the whole match. The kill from the blitzer came on the last turn, at which point the game was out of reach so everybody important should have been way the hell away from the LoS for safety reasons anyway.

More specifically, you need more Tackle than on one Nurgle Warrior, otherwise you're not going to get past his Blodge; your Pestigor have perfectly serviceable horns, and the Rotters have perfectly good boots once the blitzers are on the ground- make use of them! I'm afraid I won't be able to demonstrate personally until Week Seven, but I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to eat my words (or dance and sing if I manage a SI!)

[i2amroy]

Bit of a big post, but I'm a little concerned about the team and would really like some advice. If you would like to help read on, else feel free to skip the rest of my post.

Spoiler: Spoilered to save space (click to show/hide)

More specifically, you need more Tackle than on one Nurgle Warrior, otherwise you're not going to get past his Blodge;

Zero tackle now. I guess part of this problem I can attribute to my extremely good luck early on with the team. Because I rolled so many doubles/stat-ups early on, it's delayed the period where my team is still trying to learn "base" skills by a fair bit (though the fairly often deaths hasn't helped with that much either ).

at which point the game was out of reach so everybody important should have been way the hell away from the LoS for safety reasons anyway.

Point, I do have a tendency to take the last turn or so and make some SPP, something I should probably avoid in the future.

On that idea though does anybody have any advice on how you deal with scenarios when pretty much all you have left is important guys? I mean with a full Nurgle team (4 pests + BoN + 4 NW) you only have room for 2 Rotters on the field, and even if you decide to take other people off right at the end I often run out of rotters long before a game is over from various injuries or K.O's (or just through short supply, recently I've been losing more rotters then my winnings can replace, and I'm not getting any kills for free ones). It seems to me like if I have to put somebody on the LoS that is important I might as well put enough guys up there that they can protect each other, rather then sticking a single important guy out to get dogpiled and hoping that he survives.

Are these just problems that I get because I'm a Nurgle team? I mean from my experiences now with Nurgles it seems like the only time they ever really win a match is when they out-TV someone by at least 200 or so value, due to the simple fact that they need to spend an entire level's worth of SPP buying skills that other teams come with by default. I mean they lose to other bashy teams since they are a level behind them in bashy skills, they can't really throw the ball without serious development/luck, they are so slow that all a running team has to do is run around them and laugh, and they aren't really strong enough to hold a cage together. In fact it seems that just about the only thing they are good at is stopping throwing, which isn't that big of a deal since most throwing teams can just run the ball instead without any real problems. I guess it seems like the same sort of problem that humans have, being jacks of all trades but masters of none; but where human teams have the flexibility to act as an agi team and score Nurgle seem locked into the bashy path, a thing that they don't seem to be very good at. (I mean sure they are still better then teams like ogres, but it seems like other teams can do anything they do but better, and they don't have the flexibility to strike at things the other teams are weak against.)

[Kanil]

Spoiler: Thoughts on Blitzers (click to show/hide)

The deaths mostly don't happen during the course of the game, when said strategies are implemented and the blitzers contained; they happen on turn 16 as you throw a final blitz on some random guy who is as best covered as I can make him, roll a knockdown, and kill my guy. There isn't really much I can do about that.

There's a lot you can do about that. The guy who died? He blitzed one of my guys, then followed up, to stand next to the blitzer that killed him. If you give your opponent free blocks, you are going to suffer more casualties.

Another option would be to not stack all of your valuable players on the LoS at the end of a decided game. If you leave three no-skill rotters on the LoS and put everyone else in the endzone, then you're not going to lose anyone but no-skill rotters. Instead, you decided to have a go at injuring my players (even throwing a T16 foul), and I obviously chose to retaliate (and got lucky with it.)

Also I did try to kill them several times, including 2 5-man fouls that last game (and other various focused attempts in my previous games with you)... the worst I've managed to do was stun them. *shrug*

You threw one 3 man foul, and one 5 man foul. The former breaks armor only half the time, however the latter did work. I was unable to continue stalling, and instead had to score to attempt to protect my now downed blitzer. However, that's really not a lot of fouls. The Scamps most recent game against ank's w00t w00t featured three 4 man fouls and three 5 man fouls, as I was rather keen on killing his OTTD guy (bastard's still around, though.) There are only two players in Blood Bowl that are cheaper than Rotters, so if you want to kill someone, you might as well foul a lot and just accept that some of your expendable rotters are going to be ejected.

Plus, what the heck can you do to stop not one, but two players with level of skills your blitzers have? Even if I stack all my players together there's always going to be some poor sod who sticks out a bit, and I don't have anybody on my team who is both strong enough to keep them occupied and I can spare from my efforts to protect the ball (let alone the fact that they can simply dodge away from anybody I put on them).

A pestigor with tackle (and probably block... or even wrestle) is only 6 (16) SPP. A rotter with dirty player is another 6. Those two will get the guy down and with a few assists, throw in a really nice foul. Tossing in a guard piece is also a relatively cheap investment SPP wise, and makes the process even easier. Alternatively, you could build the exact same player with any of your pestigors. Admittedly one of them rolled a +ST, and both rolled a double for dodge, but Block/Claw/Horns/MB/Tackle is normal rolls only for a pestigor.

Yes, you're going to have players that stick out. Ideally those are the most expendable players on the team. MB+Claw breaks armor 60% of the time, half the time it's a stun, the other half KO or CAS. Assuming every single turn I do nothing but blitz one of your guys, and I always get an armor roll, you're looking at over 16 turns roughly 2.5 KOs (some of whom will come back) and 2 CAS (one of which should come back.) In short, if you do your maximum to protect your players, you're looking at losing about one rotter to them a game.

'course, I'll probably have to do something other than throw a random blitz to hope for a KO/CAS, so those numbers could be lower... but the point is,a great way to nullify their impact is to not stand next to them (and if they stand next to you, push them away.)

Keeping them occupied is also not particularly difficult, you have three ST5 players, and lots of guard access as well. It can be pretty tricky to get a hit in with 'em, at least on an important player. One neat thing you can do is build your cage around a foul target, netting you 3 assists without damaging your defense in the slightest.

Lastly: The Skitterscamps vs The Other Kittens series is currently split at two wins apiece. Casualty totals are 12-11 in favor of Skitterscamps, but that's not a large disparity. You aren't exactly doing that badly against me.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Nurgle (click to show/hide)

Nurgle is probably the best defensive team in the game. Played well, it's really hard to score on them. Defense is harder to learn/execute well than offense, so you're punished more heavily for your mistakes, but also have a harder time scoring in return and netting SPPs that way. Nurgle might not be well suited to your particular playstyle, it's unforgiving if your positioning isn't good. They're not bad, but they might not be for you.

You are indeed suffering for your doubles and stat ups, as both your ST5 warriors and your BoN could have guard right now. Taking the stats and doubles was of course worth it, but it's slowed down the collection of other important skills.

As for the scenario of losing the rotters: MOAR ROTTERS. They're 3ST, AV8, and have regeneration, for only 40,000 gold. Amazing. Decay does means failed regens are often career ending or fatal, so don't get too attached to the guys. Still, you should aim for at least a 13 man roster, or perhaps 14. Against bashy guys, you want 'em around, against fragile ones, get 'em sent off for fouling.

One other thing to consider is if you really need 5 rerolls. I suppose discarding one probably won't be a major help (really, the problem was buying it in the first place) but you might consider if it's worth giving your opponent 70k of inducements (or getting 70k less inducements yourself.)

Edit:

... those two blitzers are basically the whole team.

Our +AG linerat rolled a +MA, the block goblin got +AG, and the throwers are getting some skills too. We've got a few tricks beyond the blitzers.

[Fikes]

Is there a way to start my Skaven team over without screwing up the league?

[Kanil]

Yep. Unregister your team from the TT and reapply a new one. I'll accept it and you'll be good to go for next week.

Consider buying more gutter runners or an apothecary instead of that FF, though... I don't think FF is worth it.

[monk12]

Re: Nurgle, yeah, Kanil hit the most important points there. Trying to farm CAS SPP towards the end of a half is usually a good plan for big beefy teams like Nurgle, but Claw makes everyone AV 7, so when your opponent has it you need to pretend your beatsticks are squishy elves and keep them out of harm's way (the better ones, at least.) Hopefully your cashflow isn't too terribly strapped, since Rotter fodder really does help a lot. That's one thing I learned by playing Halflings- Treemen are the biggest toughest louts out there, but without those squishy little halflings supporting them they go down just like anyone else. Same principle for Nurgle, the Rotters keep anyone from getting a decent block on the Warriors. Plus, y'know, they're great for fouling.

Re: Super Skitterscamps, **** I'm gonna miss Valdred for that match. Stupid speedy Skaven. On the plus side, I suppose it's a target-rich environment?

Re: Skaven, yes, definitely apothecary, for reasons that should be evident from the need for a restart

[i2amroy]

The Daemoning! 1 - 2 Real Deal

Game was fairly even, though ndkid kept getting those lucky single die rolls; he threw 8 of them with 6 knockdowns, a push, and one both down. Though I did get a -AV injury on one of his blitzers in retaliation. That said hopefully these next 3 weeks against ogres should give me a chance to get enough snotter injuries and get some skills on my pit fighters. (Either that or sidestep is going to make my life miserable, we'll see how it turns out. )

Re: Nurgle
Thanks for the advice, we'll see how it goes. This will still probably be their last season regardless, and with any luck the daemons team will advance enough to move up to the main league next season.

Edit: HA-HA! I'm the 30,000th reader of this thread!

Double Edit: Also For anyone who hasn't got it already I highly recommend the installation of the Blood Bowl Community Mod Pack. I recently installed it, and having nicer grids+models makes the game look much, much better! (Also it's completely cosmetic, so it doesn't break anything in-game or on multiplayer matches).

[Kanil]

I think if you find Nurgle frustrating, Khorne will be even worse... but, good luck.

TT week advanced. Matchups for week 2:
i2amroy - The Daemoning! vs monk12 - Monk's Morons
Kanil - Ill-Timed Boners vs ndkid - Real Deal
Fikes - The Rodants vs THE_SLAYA - Slashing Slayers

[monk12]

In the Champion's Cup, Monk's Marauders defeat w00t w00t 5-3, in a game that went down pretty much the same way last season's Championship did, but with less Inducement-related lunacy. Half a dozen elves were BH, but none were injured seriously. One Marauder got BH, but who cares about him; Tonkai scored a couple TDs and threw a pair of completions to reach Legend status! A blitzer leveled up, too.

I think this fairly well clinches a Human vs Vampire Final, which hopefully will go better than last game.

[i2amroy]

I think if you find Nurgle frustrating, Khorne will be even worse... but, good luck.

Sure they can require a bit more calculation before just wading in bashing (buddy system everyone! ), but so far from the game I've played here plus the others I've played in my Auld World team I'm finding Khorne quite fun. The fact that everyone on the team has enough move to get where I need them to be, and enough agi to at least have a fair shot of handling the ball or dodging is pure heaven compared to the Nurgle.

(I'm sure I'll get a chance to eat my words later, but for now I'm finding frenzy-buddies pushing the enemy team all over the pitch much more fun then a concentrated block that has to struggle to stay in front of the ball.)

[Fikes]

Reapplied with the Rodantors.

[Kanil]

Team accepted. You're good to go.

[THE_SLAYA]

dont you talk about low agi until you've played a Khemri team! xD I'm still waiting for somebody to roll an AGI+ roll so I have a semi decent ball carrier, xD