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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1247568 times)

Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6840 on: July 29, 2013, 01:45:48 pm »

They have a huge sphere of influence in Africa, much more so than Britain does in its own former colonies.
They still believe they're an empire, so they kind of have to meddle. The French are cute sometimes~
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6841 on: July 29, 2013, 02:47:56 pm »

I'd say that the difference is that the UK government still thinks, perversely, that it is some sort of "great power" as opposed to thinking in an Imperial way. They want to play at world policeman, not so much Imperial power.
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6842 on: July 29, 2013, 03:06:20 pm »

If only they'd do that in a European context... just one world policeman isn't enough, and the only "power" that is large enough to be the second is the European bloc, especially Britain-France-Germany.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6843 on: July 29, 2013, 05:40:54 pm »

That just isn't going to happen when the British establishment is so Eurosceptic. Not Eurosceptic enough to fully support leaving the EU but enough to dampen anything like what you've described, unless it was outwith the EU.
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Graknorke

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6844 on: July 29, 2013, 05:44:16 pm »

That just isn't going to happen when the British establishment is so Eurosceptic. Not Eurosceptic enough to fully support leaving the EU but enough to dampen anything like what you've described, unless it was outwith the EU.
I don't even get what it is David Cameron's been trying to do recently. Trying to negotiate special conditions of the UK in the EU? Why would anyone think that to be a good idea that would work? At best you're put under tighter pressure to fulfil the revised obligations and at worst everyone thinks you a moron for even trying.
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Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6845 on: July 29, 2013, 06:10:28 pm »

David Cameron knows that to advocate secession from the EU will be divisive in the UK, causing problems for the next election and it will also galvanise the pro-Scottish independence camp (who advocate European membership). He's playing the difficult game of trying to appease his party, who are predominantly Eurosceptic, thereby preventing them from fleeing to UKIP, but he also wants to appeal to the moderates who may be more inclined to vote Labour in light of the European issues. Unfortunately he isn't a very effective politician and isn't doing as well as he'd like to be in this particular struggle. That said, he has been successful in lowering the support for UKIP in favour of the Conservatives, though that might be due to people realising that UKIP are a bit more swivel-eyed than they like to make out.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 06:18:48 pm by Owlbread »
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Leafsnail

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6846 on: July 29, 2013, 06:30:38 pm »

Right, so, name problems that couldn't be fixed by African governments or prevented in the first place caused by the EU and America.
Have you ever heard of slavery or colonialism?  Do you understand why those would badly screw up the development of countries, or do I need to create a picturebook to explain?
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6847 on: July 29, 2013, 06:49:43 pm »

Right, so, name problems that couldn't be fixed by African governments or prevented in the first place caused by the EU and America.
Have you ever heard of slavery or colonialism?  Do you understand why those would badly screw up the development of countries, or do I need to create a picturebook to explain?
You do realize that slavery was very much endemic in Africa and that their political structures were godawful even before colonialism, right? No centralization, no professional bureaucracies... They were screwed either way.
Not advocating colonialism or slavery here, btw; just saying that blaming Africa's problems exclusively on these influences is problematic to say the least. Empirical evidence: Abyssinia/Ethiopia has had practically no colonial history apart from a misguided Italian adventure in the thirties, and South Africa was very much colonized but is now approaching the life standard of the poorer European countries.
And another interesting tidbit: The amount of aid Africa has received since decolonialization is five times the amount Europe received under the Marshall Plan after having been blown to smithereens for the second time in fifty years. 'Bloodmoney', so to speak, has been paid quite liberally.

He's playing the difficult game of trying to appease his party, who are predominantly Eurosceptic, thereby preventing them from fleeing to UKIP, but he also wants to appeal to the moderates who may be more inclined to vote Labour in light of the European issues. Unfortunately he isn't a very effective politician and isn't doing as well as he'd like to be in this particular struggle.
Sounds like you need a British Merkel - she basically does what she wants, says nothing, and lets her party take the fire when stuff goes wrong. The opposition, meanwhile, is bleeding out, and Merkel's approval ratings are through the roof.
Regardless of political matters, it has to be admitted that she's a very capable politician.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

kingfisher1112

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6848 on: July 29, 2013, 06:51:50 pm »

Right, so, name problems that couldn't be fixed by African governments or prevented in the first place caused by the EU and America.
Have you ever heard of slavery or colonialism?  Do you understand why those would badly screw up the development of countries, or do I need to create a picturebook to explain?
Please tell me why
A) This is still a relevant problem to African governments.
B) Why giving them a better life than living in huts is a bad thing.
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Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6849 on: July 29, 2013, 06:56:22 pm »

B) Why giving them a better life than living in huts is a bad thing.

Oh christ I'm not even going to get involved in this.
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6850 on: July 29, 2013, 06:58:22 pm »

It'll all end in blood, tears, and discussions about socialism.
But mostly discussions about socialism.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Graknorke

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6851 on: July 29, 2013, 07:01:09 pm »

It'll all end in blood, tears, and discussions about socialism.
But mostly discussions about socialism.
Heil-a Mussolini!
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6852 on: July 29, 2013, 07:05:44 pm »

Hilarious game.

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Unlike what all the western propaganda is making you believe, sometimes you just lack the talent to win. And at that point a man is left with no choice but to violently kill everyone.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:34:35 pm by Helgoland »
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Graknorke

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6853 on: July 29, 2013, 07:09:20 pm »

Your link leads to nowhere. But I'm guessing it's the one with Laika murdering some soviets?
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6854 on: July 29, 2013, 07:14:30 pm »

Your link leads to nowhere. But I'm guessing it's the one with Laika murdering some soviets?
Racing Comrade
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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
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