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[Morrigi]

No one would be able to strap you down and give you an ebola cure, but they can stop your movement if you're a likely transmission risk.

This. Considering ebola is ~50% lethal, quarantines are entirely reasonable.

[Phmcw]

Sure, but we're arguing about the guidelines. You're rather conservative and European, right? What's your stance?

I'm a Belgian socialist (in the sense of "modern european-style socialism"). I favor evidence based policies, but at the same time I am rather cynical and belive that the class warfare is ongoing and that we're currently losing hard.


In this matter I think that the guidelines must be harm reduction and right to bodily intergrity, but both are mitigated by personal responsability. Namely if you didn't spot a pregnancy before 24 weeks, you're stuck with it.


In medical matter, the health of the mother is always above the healh of the baby unless the mother stated otherwise, and peoples have the right to choose the treatement they undergo. That choice, however, is open to criticism and a lawsuit in case of damage caused by reckless decisions should be allowed (IE : the child or father suing the mother in case of feutal alcohol syndrome, especially if the mother didn't take steps to get her addiction under control).

For me a feutus progressively gain personhood over the developement of his higher brain fonction and is legally a human being once he's born. He get full rights at 18 years old.

[penguinofhonor]

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

[Sheb]

Yeah, also Vector, you're overlooking the fundamental fact that we all assume woman have the right to choose whether to be pregnant or not. Basically, if you choose to have a kid, you choose to have responsibilities to that child until he can live on his own (even if that just mean carrying it to term and giving it up for adoption.)

What we're discussing is what exactly those responsibilities should be.

[Graknorke]

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

You like in Kentucky.

[Sheb]

Yeah, in my experience, case of fathers getting away with not paying child support they should pay are much more common than fathers being forced to pay child support despite never wanting the child in the first place.

[MonkeyHead]

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

You like in Kentucky.

Not sure how common this is, but a colleague of mine was a single mother of a pretty cool teenager. The dad refused point blank to pay child support, so was refused any kind of parental access or leverage by the courts as a result. When said mother re-married, her new husband officially adopted the teen. The teens dad filed a protest against this, but the court threw it out as he was never willing to take responsibility for the child previously, and was deemed to have waived his fatherhood.

[Frumple]

Let's see... Women being forced into medical procedures? "Maybe that's reasonable." Men paying for babies that THEY don't want? "That's not right!"

If that's referencing me, I never said that former thing. The latter? Yes, I do find that unreasonable. The man is FORCED to go along with the mother's decision, whether he likes it or not.

Also, in the case of a man that can't afford it? Ha, enjoy getting fucked over. Either you pay and live in utter poverty, or you don't, land in jail, and have to pay it later.

... leafsnail covered that well. No, the guy doesn't get a choice in the bits involving birth, beyond whether to screw or not (well, barring him getting raped, of course). Not his body, not his choice. Afterwards, either parent is equally screwed by child support related stuff. Child support is not an equivalent issue to carrying a child to term. At all.

Incidentally, last I checked, the guy isn't actually legally required to support the woman during pregnancy, nor provide medical coverage. When something like that does happen, it's usually due to other issues, so far as I'm aware. I know my father damn sure didn't help out financially during the hospital stay, but that may have changed over the years.

Note: You want to cut off the child support fees? Obtain custody, and then get the kid adopted.

[RAM]

 Ytivengol detcidrep of noticudre a esauc sererdurm. Efil as naiterc as is, dlrow our in thead. Sthead esauc not do sererdurm.
neth deneppah tawh drocre ecilop emit the and nrob ngeib morf neztiic a tnevrep to emit in ckab go to eerw you if, lyevtianertla.
Thrae ledom lytceferp to ertupmoc dezis-tenalp a use deatsni ouy if. Erdurm as it etucecrop dlouw yeth tath elbanosear smees it
it tibihni to ngidiced and ycnagnrep a touba snoticidrep elpmis few a ngikam. Lacitnedi lylanoticnuf is it neth end emas the to
to but is lohocla as chum dettimerp be dloush and erdurm llams yerv a is notiroba tath deugra be can it. Tnetsisnoc lyreitne is
mitciv the, slamina and sevals as chus, noserpnon any as chum, neam I. Uertnu lypmis is tneerffid lylatnemadnuf is it tath say
ecnesrep lacios no had...

 Ytirgetni lyidob of ytticnas the in evieleb not soed tnemshinup laitpac secticrap tath notian any...

 tlaussa are seurdecrop lacidem decrof. Dettimerp be dloush it beyam but erdurm is notiroba. Cipot sith in setulosba no are ereth.
as not are us of emos beyam but notiaerdicnoc of tnoip the at elbatcidrep is efil snoser'p a. Dettimerp be dloush yeth beyam but
Esorw is evtianertla the beyam but luerc and evissreppo is ilumits to noticear tneliov a reudne to eneomos ngicorf. Sertho as elpeop
Elbassimerp be nac ecnegilgen beyam but lyetiademmi sniadruag emocbe erthaf lynaiterc tsomla and erthom eth.

[Darvi]

... if you're going to do a post entirely sdrawkcab, then do make an effort to do so correctly.

[Angle]

yeah, when run through a text reverser, I get this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

.hte mohtre dna almost cretianyl fahtre ebcome gaurdains immedaiteyl tub mayeb negligence can eb premissablE
poeple sa ohtreS .frocign somoene ot enduer a voilent raeciton ot stimuli si opperssive dna creul tub mayeb eht altrenaitve si wrosE
tub mayeb htey hsuold eb premitteD .a p'resons life si perdictable ta eht piont fo concidreaiton tub mayeb some fo su era ton sa
.htere era on absolutes ni htis topiC .aboriton si mrudre tub mayeb ti hsuold eb premitteD .forced medical porcedrues era assualt

...yna naiton htat parcitces captial punihsment deos ton beleive ni eht sancitty fo bodiyl integritY

...dah on soical persence
yas htat ti si fundamentalyl diffreent si simpyl untreU .I maen ,muhc sa yna nonpreson ,suhc sa slaves dna animals ,eht victim
si entieryl consistenT .ti nac eb argued htat aboriton si a vrey small mrudre dna hsuold eb premitted muhc sa alcohol si tub ot
ot eht same dne hten ti si funcitonalyl identicaL .makign a wef simple perdicitons abuot a perngancy dna decidign ot inhibit ti
ti seems raesonable htat htey wuold porcecute ti sa mrudrE .fi yuo instaed esu a planet-sized computre ot prefectyl model earhT
.altrenaitveyl ,fi uoy wree ot og bakc ni time ot pervent a ciitzen from biegn born dna eht time police ercord hwat happened hten
.mrudreres od ton cuase daehtS .daeht ni ruo world ,si sa cretian sa lifE .mrudreres cuase a erduciton fo perdicted lognevitY

In other words, your post is completely illegible.

[penguinofhonor]

The best I can tell, it's paragraphs of nonsense with all the letters in each word scrambled. RAM, you missed April Fool's day by a few months.

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

You like in Kentucky.

This all happened in Ohio, actually.

Not sure how common this is, but a colleague of mine was a single mother of a pretty cool teenager. The dad refused point blank to pay child support, so was refused any kind of parental access or leverage by the courts as a result. When said mother re-married, her new husband officially adopted the teen. The teens dad filed a protest against this, but the court threw it out as he was never willing to take responsibility for the child previously, and was deemed to have waived his fatherhood.

My friend's dad was definitely not getting custody (he was abusive) and he didn't care about the kids anyway, so there was nothing to hold over him. There are enough ways heartless people can fuck their kids over. Dads who never wanted their kids to be born don't need more legal leeway to do this.

[Graknorke]

The best I can tell, it's paragraphs of nonsense with all the letters in each word scrambled. RAM, you missed April Fool's day by a few months.

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

You like in Kentucky.

This all happened in Ohio, actually.

Okay, Ohio then. Still in the US. Which has systems that will not match those experienced by a good number of people on this board.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Baffler]

The best I can tell, it's paragraphs of nonsense with all the letters in each word scrambled. RAM, you missed April Fool's day by a few months.

Or you don't and just get a slap on the wrist. My friend's mom tried to get her dad to pay child support for a years before she gave up. Turns out when you're trying to raise kids on your own, all those days in court are a lot harder on you than the dad.

You like in Kentucky.

This all happened in Ohio, actually.

Okay, Ohio then. Still in the US. Which has systems that will not match those experienced by a good number of people on this board.

You're just jealous of our glorious buckeye trees, airplanes, presidents, and Cavaliers. OSU stronk, remove wolverines, and so on and so forth. Not Kasich though, he can walk for all we care. Honest.