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[smeeprocket]

Well, the law was tailored to target principally the veil. I mean, why not ban ALL RELIGIOUS symbols? No, only the "conspicuous" symbols. A notion entirely unclear (actually, even less clear in the original French, the exact word ostentatoire imply intent of being conspicuous.), but it was clear it targeted mostly the veil.

It's a trend: for example that recent law in Quebec banning all religious symbols in public buildings - except for those of "historical interest". So the legislature can continue meeting under a crucifix.

Just because the law doesn't cite a particular group doesn't mean it does not target a particular group. If I make a law banning begging, you can't say it doesn't target the poor because it also ban rich people from begging.

this was well put.

[TD1]

Surely it stands to reason that with the amount of black gangs there are, black arrests would be higher. I'm sure that during the height of the Mafia, Italian conviction rates were higher than normal.

Also, on the Allah thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say that the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Essentially, sex is a shame, and hide your beauty. I'm not sure if that means men are supposed to the same, though.

[smeeprocket]

I just thank My Lord and Master Baphomet for the Satanic Temple to enforce religious freedom on these heathens.

[smeeprocket]

Surely it stands to reason that with the amount of black gangs there are, black arrests would be higher. I'm sure that during the height of the Mafia, Italian conviction rates were higher than normal.

Also, on the Allah thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say that the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Essentially, sex is a shame, and hide your beauty. I'm not sure if that means men are supposed to the same, though.

oh gawd. Ugh.

Do you think white people don't have gangs or actually commit less crimes? They don't. I can start throwing statistics at you, but the issue I am specifically talking about is higher conviction rates if you are black for the same crime, or if the victim is white. Also, the war on drugs targeting minorities extensively. Also the higher chance of a death penalty sentence if you are black.

There are lots of different gangs of different races. That doesn't mean there is actually an epidemic of black crime over other races, especially white.

edit: and Christianity has all that sex shame stuff too. That definitely doesn't same a burqa is necessary though. Moderate muslims don't really worry about that rule, at most you might have a hijab, and that is by choice.

[UXLZ]

Yes. It's a cultural thing, and they may choose to wear it- but it's because Allah tells them to hide themselves, IIRC. It separates women from men as it gives them separate rules, and then further generations of Muslim girls will also be forced into this custom from birth. It has a profound effect on the rest of their lives if they feel the need to hide away from men.

In that case, banning the burqa is just attempting to correct a symptom of a wider problem: Namely, crazy religious people.

Seriously, though, they shouldn't be banning things like this (except in places like banks where it does truly make sense).

[Phmcw]

Well, the law was tailored to target principally the veil. I mean, why not ban ALL RELIGIOUS symbols? No, only the "conspicuous" symbols. A notion entirely unclear (actually, even less clear in the original French, the exact word ostentatoire imply intent of being conspicuous.), but it was clear it targeted mostly the veil.

It's a trend: for example that recent law in Quebec banning all religious symbols in public buildings - except for those of "historical interest". So the legislature can continue meeting under a crucifix.

Just because the law doesn't cite a particular group doesn't mean it does not target a particular group. If I make a law banning begging, you can't say it doesn't target the poor because it also ban rich people from begging.

No problem with that I admit. I live in Charleroi, and the fact that the government took a clear stence is a good thing. You can wear the veil, just not as a employee of the stateor in a school, and not a veil that cover the face.

The problems we face regarding mysoginy go a tad farther than women's representation in videogames. Got attacked pretty violently and had to protect my sister and it wasn't fun.

[TD1]

Surely it stands to reason that with the amount of black gangs there are, black arrests would be higher. I'm sure that during the height of the Mafia, Italian conviction rates were higher than normal.

Also, on the Allah thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say that the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Essentially, sex is a shame, and hide your beauty. I'm not sure if that means men are supposed to the same, though.

oh gawd. Ugh.

Do you think white people don't have gangs or actually commit less crimes? They don't. I can start throwing statistics at you, but the issue I am specifically talking about is higher conviction rates if you are black for the same crime, or if the victim is white. Also, the war on drugs targeting minorities extensively. Also the higher chance of a death penalty sentence if you are black.

There are lots of different gangs of different races. That doesn't mean there is actually an epidemic of black crime over other races, especially white.

edit: and Christianity has all that sex shame stuff too. That definitely doesn't same a burqa is necessary though. Moderate muslims don't really worry about that rule, at most you might have a hijab, and that is by choice.

And yet young black men are 14 times more likely to commit murder than young white men.

There is a "ghetto culture" that many blacks associate with.

[Putnam]

And yet young black men are 14 times more likely to commit murder than young white men.

There is a "ghetto culture" that many blacks associate with.

Nope, that statement is racist trash spread around by people who skew statistics to justify themselves.

http://np.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2nmgy2/the_man_who_was_robbed_by_michael_brown_was_also/cmf6bu5

This Reddit post is a summary of an actual academic study. Here's a summary of more salient points of the summary.

"The sources of violent crime appear to be remarkably similar across race and rooted instead in the structural differences among communities, cities, and regions in economic and family organization"

"Although the national rate of family disruption and poverty among blacks is two to four times higher than among whites, the number of distinct ecological contexts in which blacks achieve equality to whites is striking. In not one city over 100,000 in the United States do blacks live in ecological equality to whites when it comes to these basic features of economic and family organization. Accordingly,racial differences in poverty and family disruption are so strong that the "worst" urban contexts in which whites reside are considerably better off than the average context of black communities"

Basically: poverty causes crime, and the average african american community is in a state of poverty worse than even the worst white communities.

[smeeprocket]

oh shit. Putnam laying the smackdown on racism.

[Sheb]

Phmcw, I was talking about the French case, where they banned students from wearing the veil. I'm honestly split about the issue, but if you want religious symbols banned, you should ban them all, no sneaking in Christian ones because they're smaller.

[Putnam]

oh shit. Putnam laying the smackdown on racism.

Aw shit, that was worded funny. I emphasized that the statement was racist trash but I seem to have forgotten to emphasize that just because you believe the statement does not mean you're racist trash, since (as can be seen in my link) people cite the study I just cited as proof.

[smeeprocket]

Well, the law was tailored to target principally the veil. I mean, why not ban ALL RELIGIOUS symbols? No, only the "conspicuous" symbols. A notion entirely unclear (actually, even less clear in the original French, the exact word ostentatoire imply intent of being conspicuous.), but it was clear it targeted mostly the veil.

It's a trend: for example that recent law in Quebec banning all religious symbols in public buildings - except for those of "historical interest". So the legislature can continue meeting under a crucifix.

Just because the law doesn't cite a particular group doesn't mean it does not target a particular group. If I make a law banning begging, you can't say it doesn't target the poor because it also ban rich people from begging.

No problem with that I admit. I live in Charleroi, and the fact that the government took a clear stence is a good thing. You can wear the veil, just not as a employee of the stateor in a school, and not a veil that cover the face.

The problems we face regarding mysoginy go a tad farther than women's representation in videogames. Got attacked pretty violently and had to protect my sister and it wasn't fun.

that was demeaning. I speak on women's representation in video games because I am on a video game forum. I assure you, we have larger issues. It's a little absurd to take from that that's all that's going on in america, as well as fairly ignorant.

Furthermore, that law basically bans muslim women from having those jobs. You are oppressing them because of their religion. It is more institutionalized misogyny disguised as an attempt to educate the savages. White men don't get to lead the conversation about middle eastern women's liberation. You can help, but it's not your voices tha tneed to be heard.

[smeeprocket]

Just to be clear, this also isn't just a white man's issue either, white middle-class feminists are horrible about it and an entire hastag #solidarityiswhitewomen went viral over it because they only perceive their problems and want only their voices to be heard.

[Helgoland]

Calling the lower boards a video game forum is a bit of a stretch... Most people come for DF, but stay for the community and the discussions, I think.

[Angle]

Yeah, we've got people who've never even played DF, and only signed up for the RTD's.