Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fniff]

So, zombie apocalypse question. It's like 2006 all over again!
For extra cliché points, this is about surviving in a mall. Specifically, Newcastle's Eldon Square Shopping Centre.

My question is, how many people could live in that mall? I want there to be enough that it could be called a town. In fact, the (sarcastic) nickname in-universe is "Newcastle, the last city on earth". The mall's page says it has "over" 130 shops, so it looks fairly big. If that isn't enough for a calculation, assume an average shopping centre.

[My Name is Immaterial]

A few questions: Are we assuming naval-style accommodations, refugee camp conditions, "tiny-living", or more comfortable living conditions? Can we assume additional constructions (in the walkways, on the roof)? Do we have to reserve space inside the mall for long-term food storage (ie: massive stocks of food, lasting for years)? What kind of basic infrastructure are we looking at; lighting, plumbing, etc?

Based on the Wikipedia page for it, Eldon's got 130,100 m² of retail space, or 1,400,000 ft² for Freedomlanders like myself.
Based on some rough estimates, if everyone's living in refugee camp population density (Based on the Zaatari camp) you can easily fit ~3150 people inside the stores. Since a town is 1000 people or more, you've hit your target.

If you're at a uni,
 you might get access to various academic databases. Take a look at this paper about the practical size of refugee camps.

[Fniff]

A few questions: Are we assuming naval-style accommodations, refugee camp conditions, "tiny-living", or more comfortable living conditions?

My initial thought was "more comfortable", since they have been there for twenty years, but I realize they'd be more like a refugee camp. Everyone rushed in when the apocalypse happened, the military happened to be there to organize things slightly, then the doors shut for twenty years. Considering that migration is unlikely (in-universe, the known remnants of humanity are Newcastle, a military base miles away from Newcastle, a xenophobic cult/bandit group, and a small number of vagrants - everyone else is zombies), the conditions are unlikely to be pleasant.

Still, at least it's not zombies!

Can we assume additional constructions (in the walkways, on the roof)?

Definitely.

Do we have to reserve space inside the mall for long-term food storage (ie: massive stocks of food, lasting for years)?

Probably not, I imagine them having agricultural capacity on the roof. The food storage would only need to last through winter/unforeseeable emergencies, so six months tops.

What kind of basic infrastructure are we looking at; lighting, plumbing, etc?

Plumbing is possible, they may have worked out a way of purifying rainwater and distributing piping throughout the center. Lighting is definitely out, they're on candles and lanterns. Electricity is limited to a couple of gasoline generators used strictly for emergencies. Sewage probably consists of throwing it over the wall onto the zombies, which also doubles as a cathartic and recreational activity.

[Trekkin]

If they have generators and they have agriculture, why can they not run their generators on ethanol distilled from excess food?

[Helgoland]

excess food

There's your mistake.

[Egan_BW]

It seems pretty unlikely that you could actually feed that many people with just some agriculture on the roof of one building. Farming takes up some space. Over the course of 20 years, someone is gonna have to take a chance outside those walls and expand the territory, or else everyone will starve. Totally self-inclosed dwarf fortresses just really aren't practical. On the other hand, like, it's zombies. Not gonna be that hard to clear them out.

[Fniff]

excess food

There's your mistake.

Thanks for the snappy dialog exchange, totally stealing that for this project...

It seems pretty unlikely that you could actually feed that many people with just some agriculture on the roof of one building. Farming takes up some space. Over the course of 20 years, someone is gonna have to take a chance outside those walls and expand the territory, or else everyone will starve. Totally self-inclosed dwarf fortresses just really aren't practical. On the other hand, like, it's zombies. Not gonna be that hard to clear them out.

That's a good point. I will admit, these aren't 100% average zombies. They've got a Last of Us-style origins story in that they're fungus-based, but it's airborne. The survivors in this story have something figured out to keep the mall itself safe, but it's difficult if not impossible to expand to something bigger.

It's possible they might be getting food from the military base. Another option is that they have less people, but have a huge hydroponic garden inside the mall itself. It'd still be gasoline-powered, though, and they're steadily running out.

[Helgoland]

One probably could till a plot, then leave it unprotected - zombies don't care about agriculture - and then drive them off again when it's harvest time. Should work best with fruit trees and anything that can easily be collected without much digging or cutting. Biohazard suits (which are old, and prone to leakage) would have to be provided for the farmers venturing out to harvest.

Setting it up this way gives you a plausible reason for them not to be just completely holed up, without going into a raider-style thing.

[Fniff]

That's a neat image, but don't farm plots require a lot of upkeep beyond harvesting? The idea should still work, but just checking for accuracy.

[Egan_BW]

I now want a game where you're a post-apocalyptic farmer, and you have to go out every day to tend to your fields, while fending off zombies, making sure your suit doesn't break down, protecting the crops from wild animals, and rushing home before night falls. If you fail to tend to and protect your crops, everyone dies.

[Fniff]

I'm imagining the suit will be like Fallout 4's power armor with Jalopy's car repair mechanics.

[Helgoland]

That's a neat image, but don't farm plots require a lot of upkeep beyond harvesting? The idea should still work, but just checking for accuracy.

Depends on what you're growing, how much pesticides, fertilizer etc you're using, what climate you're in, what sort of weeds your crop is competing with... That's why orchards are probably the best choice: You have to prune them once a year, and you have to go harvest - that's it.
If they still have old agricultural machinery, they could outfit that to be zombie-resistant and keep using it, massively improving yields. Animal husbandry could likewise be adapted to a setting like this, maybe in this manner.

[Rolan7]

I now want a game where you're a post-apocalyptic farmer, and you have to go out every day to tend to your fields, while fending off zombies, making sure your suit doesn't break down, protecting the crops from wild animals, and rushing home before night falls. If you fail to tend to and protect your crops, everyone dies.

Reminds me a little of 7 Days To Die.  I never learned the optimal strategies, just spent my days hurriedly scavenging or farming.  Then cowered in a deep hole each night, heh.

[Fniff]

That's a neat image, but don't farm plots require a lot of upkeep beyond harvesting? The idea should still work, but just checking for accuracy.

Depends on what you're growing, how much pesticides, fertilizer etc you're using, what climate you're in, what sort of weeds your crop is competing with... That's why orchards are probably the best choice: You have to prune them once a year, and you have to go harvest - that's it.
If they still have old agricultural machinery, they could outfit that to be zombie-resistant and keep using it, massively improving yields. Animal husbandry could likewise be adapted to a setting like this, maybe in this manner.

There aren't too many fruits that are A. stapel foods and B. grow readily in Newcastle.

I think our best option might be potatoes. Grows anywhere and is easy to maintain. However, to properly grow them, you need to dump new soil on top of them every 1-2 weeks.

I'm imagining a scene where six people clad in HAZMAT suits and guns head out through the dead city, cutting down zombies by the dozen. You think they're gonna go on a scavenging run, like a traditional apocalypse... When they rush to a tilled field and start desperately shoveling soil over the potato rows, while two guards pick off the approaching zombie hordes with shotguns.

These guys are the biggest badasses in the settlement. They are respected as the lynchpin of the last city on earth.

They are...
The Association of Concerned Farmers.

[Paxiecrunchle]

Today I saw a symbol of a crucified serpent with a crown and wings above the cross,  I tried looking it up, but I handed up getting vacant confusing information about alchemy or something, appearently having to do with Nicholas Flammel.

But what on earth does it really mean? Also the person had an  ouroborus symbol as well so I guess they like alechemic nonsense, but otherwise I'm still confused.