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[Snow Gibbon]

Currently, the material that a bow (or crossbow) is made of only affects it's effectiveness as a bludgeon in combat. Perhaps we could also realistically simulate material properties for their ranged function as well?

What I'm suggesting is that a bow made of a material with higher tensile properties will have lower effectiveness for smaller creatures or those with lower strength. For example, Freengus the Kobold will have some serious trouble trying to pull the string on a bow made of iron in order for the arrow to go anywhere meaningful. Meanwhile, Urist McMuscles or Mr. Giant over there will have no trouble pulling on it, and will gain whatever benefit it may yield to them (probably higher missile velocity than using an ordinary wooden bow).

This can apply to crossbows as well - A crossbow with a steel bow (i.e. an arbalest) may boast a greater shooting force than a wooden one and be able to punch through the heaviest armor, but can boast a slower reload time (Once Toady has fixed the fire rate for them compared to bows) and may require a Windlass in order to cock and load it.

This will give more variation to Fortress mode as well as Adventure mode - It will give reason to actually use both wooden crossbows as well as metal ones, dependent on whether you want to compromise speed over power or vice versa.

Good or no? Post below!

[weenog]

Sounds like a natural step in improving the simulation quality.  I would rank it lower in priority than fixing things we already have which are broken, though.  Beekeeping, for example, or passing animal training knowledge back to your home civilization.

[Escapism]

Are metal bows actually feasible, anyway? I've never heard of them exist outside of games.

Either way, wood type should matter for bow-making. Wood type was actually pretty important for bow-making. This will also add an increased incentive for trading, as different biomes produce different kind of trees.

[Jheral]

I don't know of any bows that had metal limbs, but I do remember some crossbows that did. The one they call the Arbalest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest). Well within the timeframe for DF, even without considering superior dwarven craftsmanship.

And different woods should definately have different qualities as far as bows are concerned (english and welsh longbows were made out of yew, for instance, because yew was very well suited for that particular application - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxus_baccata#Longbows). So I definately support this suggestion.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, this suggestion is much better than I had feared. Good job.

Something like this makes sense. It would not only make things more realistically, it would also lead to ways to differentiate between ranged weapons as metal bows need more strength to fire optimally and crossbows take longer to reload without great strength.


Where would this leave adamantine crossbows?

[dizzyelk]

It would also be great if you could make bows with more than one material to improve them. So that way you could have a simple wooden bow that works ok, but kill an animal and get some sinew to back that bow with and increase its power. Later on, acquire some horn and make a composite bow for a far more powerful bow.

[Escapism]

It would also be great if you could make bows with more than one material to improve them. So that way you could have a simple wooden bow that works ok, but kill an animal and get some sinew to back that bow with and increase its power. Later on, acquire some horn and make a composite bow for a far more powerful bow.

Of course, bows mae by dwarves should be mediocre at best. If you have a decent relationship with your local elves, though...

Well, this suggestion is much better than I had feared. Good job.

Something like this makes sense. It would not only make things more realistically, it would also lead to ways to differentiate between ranged weapons as metal bows need more strength to fire optimally and crossbows take longer to reload without great strength.


Where would this leave adamantine crossbows?

If I understand everything correctly, adamantine is just a very stiff yet completely nigh unbreakable metal (at least in non-cloth form). That would leave us with a bow that requires a tremendous amount of strength to draw/load, yet one that is also capable of storing a lot of energy (Tensile+compressive yield is very high). Furthermore, it'd probably crave a very strong bowstring (though sinew is, of course, a very strong material already). Only realistically utilized as a crossbow.

[Neonivek]

That would leave us with a bow that requires a tremendous amount of strength to draw/load, yet one that is also capable of storing a lot of energy

On the contrary. The thing about Adamantine is that it is nearly indestructible but it is VERY VERY fragile.

Or to put it in other terms. Adamantine doesn't bend it just breaks. (Just how Adamantine crafting works has many theories, given that it should be impossible even for the dwarves)

There are a lot of crafts that simply don't work for it and one of those is Bows and crossbows.

Anyhow looking at my info I find that metal bows are barely a thing (mind you I THINK they can be part of composite...).

[Escapism]

How do you infer this? From the raws, I can only see the tension/compression yields, which supposedly only represents how much force it can absorb before becoming permanently deformed (according to wiki:Material Definition Token). There doesn't seem to be any token which defines at which amount force it start to bend.

[dizzyelk]

It would also be great if you could make bows with more than one material to improve them. So that way you could have a simple wooden bow that works ok, but kill an animal and get some sinew to back that bow with and increase its power. Later on, acquire some horn and make a composite bow for a far more powerful bow.

Of course, bows mae by dwarves should be mediocre at best. If you have a decent relationship with your local elves, though...

I wasn't thinking of dwarves making bows, but rather adventurers, when more skills get added for them, as well as elves and humans having the better bows when you end up fighting them in fortress mode. I think that it works better with dwarves being exclusive crossbow users.

[DavionFuxa]

It would also be great if you could make bows with more than one material to improve them. So that way you could have a simple wooden bow that works ok, but kill an animal and get some sinew to back that bow with and increase its power. Later on, acquire some horn and make a composite bow for a far more powerful bow.

Of course, bows mae by dwarves should be mediocre at best. If you have a decent relationship with your local elves, though...

Can't see why a Dwarf made Crossbow would be made any better due to Elves or not. In relation to the fact that Crossbow's would likely have mechanisms and be made out of metal (something that Dwarves prefer you see) it would stand to reason that the Dwarves would be able to make it just as well as any other weapon, if not better then them.

It would also be great if you could make bows with more than one material to improve them. So that way you could have a simple wooden bow that works ok, but kill an animal and get some sinew to back that bow with and increase its power. Later on, acquire some horn and make a composite bow for a far more powerful bow.

This makes a lot of sense, especially with Crossbows. You might have a Crossbow made with a Wooden Frame but constructed with Metal Mechanisms for a fearsome beast of Dwarven machinery. Combine it with the Steel Prod like the Arbalest's in history and you've created an extremely horrific weapon.

[Funk]

there is no real reason to make a bow out of anything other than wood or composite.

bows  are limited by how much force there user can pull(about 200lb tops)

[GreatWyrmGold]

That would leave us with a bow that requires a tremendous amount of strength to draw/load, yet one that is also capable of storing a lot of energy

On the contrary. The thing about Adamantine is that it is nearly indestructible but it is VERY VERY fragile.

Or to put it in other terms. Adamantine doesn't bend it just breaks. (Just how Adamantine crafting works has many theories, given that it should be impossible even for the dwarves)

There are a lot of crafts that simply don't work for it and one of those is Bows and crossbows.

If that's the case, then explain adamantine cloth.
Adamantine is, even if what you claim about not bending is true, fragile only in the most technical sense. It is effectively unbreakable by any mortal force. If you had a place to stand and a long, rigid, and slender rod of adamantine, you could move the world. Assuming you used leverage right, of course.

there is no real reason to make a bow out of anything other than wood or composite.

bows  are limited by how much force there user can pull(about 200lb tops)

For humans, sure. Dwarves are probably much stronger. Heck, seeing as DF!humans have to battle much more deadly things than RL!humans, even humans might be stronger than humans!

[Beardedwander]

there is no real reason to make a bow out of anything other than wood or composite.

This MIGHT be true of a traditional recurve or long bow but a RL steel crossbow is so much more powerful than a wooden crossbow its not even funny.

It is effectively unbreakable by any mortal force.

Exactly. Which means if you made a bow from it you would probably need infinite strength to draw it.

As for adamantium clothing I think that its implementation is incomplete at best and possibly even bugged seeing as how it wears out just like ordinary clothing.

[sockless]

If we're going to go improving bows and crossbows, I think that we should at the same time improve bolts and arrows. They should at least require wood and (optionally) a head material. Maybe feathers as well (might be a problem for elves, leaves maybe?).