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Author Topic: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion  (Read 5600 times)

Solifuge

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Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« on: March 19, 2013, 02:43:17 am »

I've been reflecting on the nature of my brain (it's the only brain I can really know), as well as emotions, thoughts, and the processes by which I experience them. I'm a bit concerned/self-conscious about the amount of control I have over my emotional state, and I was wondering if other people experience the same things I do. I'm a bit tired, and I'm also writing this as academically as possible, so please pardon if it sounds really cold or strange. It's a difficult process to describe in a comprehensive way, in case this isn't something that other people experience. Hope it makes sense, and here goes:

Say something "sad" happens to me... I lose at a game, burn a tray of muffins I was making, whatever. I find a part of my brain recognizing the scenario as a "sad" one, and deciding how sad I should feel about it, if at all. I've trained myself to put the knowledge that I'm making this decision out of my head, due to the whole self-conscious thing, but I still notice it when it happens.

Since it's a topic that's been on my mind lately, let's say I just learned that a person I care about has died. This is a bad and unfortunate thing, and one I wish hadn't happened. I understand that grief and sadness are the response that should accompany the event, yet I'm still consciously deciding whether or not I want to express and experience "sadness". I generally prefer to; grieving is the natural/healthy/good/normal/right reaction to have, and to not adopt a state of sadness might convey the wrong message to others, or seem disrespectful to a person I cared about (even though, as far as I can tell, the one who died wouldn't really care if felt sad about them or not). I might do this same exercise later on, consciously willing myself into a state of sadness, as a form of meditation or reflection on that person's memory, because... they deserve to have those sad feelings thought about them? I guess? It's hard to say why, really. It just seems to be the thing to do, sometimes.

There are other occasions when I recognize a situation that should evoke an emotion (joy, anger, sadness), but maybe I don't feel the emotion is necessary, or that it would impair my ability to do things, etc. In such cases, I might choose not to experience the emotion. Sticking with the death scenario, I might recognize that sadness would be appropriate, but perhaps I don't think the situation or the people it affects would benefit from my sadness- say, someone else has been affected by it, and I feel that I can make their situation better if I decide to be cheerful, comforting, or so on. Despite still wishing the situation hadn't happened, I might choose to not express the sadness I "should" express.

As far as I can tell, I do experience the same sorts of emotions that other people experience... but sometimes I feel like a bad person for being able (having to?) make that choice. Like my emotions become cheaper or less authentic than those other people experience.

Do or have you experienced something like this before? To your knowledge, is this indicative of abnormal psychology? I'm mostly approaching this from an academic curiosity perspective, but the small and irrational part of me that's self conscious about this is worried that it's unhealthy.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 02:46:59 am by Solifuge »
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Xantalos

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 02:48:16 am »

I have no idea on whether this is abnormal or not, but my brain seems to function much the same as yours; well, kind of different - I never really experience emotion, but I can put up a convincing facade.
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Korbac

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 03:39:03 am »

I'm pretty much the same here Soli; although my decision to experience emotions to the benefit of others depends on whether I'm in my Happy Friendly / Glorious Bastard mood. :P
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Solifuge

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 03:59:23 am »

It's entirely possible that I'm freaking out about a very normal facet of human psychology here.
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Korbac

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 04:03:53 am »

I hope this isn't normal human psychology. It devalues the way emotions work if that's the case! :P

I remember when I was younger I had much more 'impulse' empathy than I do these days. I only get that these days if I'm in Naive Child mode. :P
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Mr Space Cat

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 07:40:46 am »

It's odd trying to put my mental functions into words.

Personally, I guess I have emotional responses to "sad" stimuli such as the news someone I know died. The level of response depends on how much I knew the person. If I barely knew them or flat out never heard of them 'til now, they usually prompt a "Eh, that's a shame" or at most a clenching in my gut upon hearing the news. I barely knew the person, there's no huge cause for me to actually feel sad.

If it was a really close friend or family member then of course I'd be sad, though I can't explain why but just how I'd be sad. Not much thought on whether or not I should be sad. Whether I should actually show that emotion is a different story, but I can't completely control it I get sad as piss enough.

Sometimes I just lose motivation and feel "Sad" for little reason, or for reasons but reasons that are hard to explain. When it gets really bad I'm practically in a mental fog where I'm thinking little, acting slower than normal, and my thoughts can derail easily and I find myself daydreaming at the randomest times. Then my motivation to do anything, even something I thoroughly enjoyed before, goes right out the window.

I have a thing with "happy" though, like I'm not entirely sure if I'm actually feeling happy or what. It's my birthday? Meh, I'd be thankful for cake and any gifts, but not for the actual fact it's my birthday. I see some awesome fanart of my favorite pony? I can recognize that it's a really cool thing I like, and that makes me "happy", I guess. A friend won the lottery? Holy shi-we'll be able to do so much with the money this is so exciting-but am I actually "happy" about it? I drew something really cool or made an awesome thing in a game? I feel proud of myself over it and can admire what I did, but I dunno if I'm actually happy about it or just pleased at the accomplishment.

Maybe I'm just trying too hard to scientifically qualify how one does happy. Anyway, I guess that sounds similar to what you described, Solifuge.
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silverskull39

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 11:08:29 am »

Hmm. I don't decide how happy/sad/[EMOTION] I am in reaction to a stimulus, but with a little effort I can modulate it one way or another in most cases. I.e. if I don't feel as happy as I think I should, I can "make" myself feel a decent amount happier. Part of this is through facial expressions, body language and behaviors; I can't remember if it's been proven conclusively, but I believe there have been studies showing that simply pretending to feel an emotion causes the genuine emotion to be felt. I'll hunt for links later, if I remember. But the rest is a mental effort.

Perhaps relevant to note, I used to have anger management issues, though I've got them under control now. I still have a somewhat short temper, but I can control the manifestations of that anger.
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Azated

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 11:10:50 am »

I think much the same way as you.

I've always felt that emotions of any kind hinder a persons ability to act calmly and rationally, and I tend to value practicality over irrational decisions. However, I know that I 'should' feel sad, or happy, or angry, when something happens, so I've taken to forcing myself to feel whatever emotion I'm supposed to in a certain situation, within reason. It's actually helped me in my social life more than I thought it would. Empathy is a powerful thing.



Sometimes I just lose motivation and feel "Sad" for little reason, or for reasons but reasons that are hard to explain. When it gets really bad I'm practically in a mental fog where I'm thinking little, acting slower than normal, and my thoughts can derail easily and I find myself daydreaming at the randomest times. Then my motivation to do anything, even something I thoroughly enjoyed before, goes right out the window.

I have a thing with "happy" though, like I'm not entirely sure if I'm actually feeling happy or what. It's my birthday? Meh, I'd be thankful for cake and any gifts, but not for the actual fact it's my birthday. I see some awesome fanart of my favorite pony? I can recognize that it's a really cool thing I like, and that makes me "happy", I guess. A friend won the lottery? Holy shi-we'll be able to do so much with the money this is so exciting-but am I actually "happy" about it? I drew something really cool or made an awesome thing in a game? I feel proud of myself over it and can admire what I did, but I dunno if I'm actually happy about it or just pleased at the accomplishment.

I know exactly what you mean, because I feel exactly the same way.

You might want to do a little research on depression. Contrary to popular belief, depression isn't just suicidal thoughts.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 11:16:12 am by Azated »
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Descan

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 11:32:46 am »

I got wondering from the Rage conversation, when Salmon said "Had to be taught how to display empathy, like an academic subject."

Can someone in that position get to the point where it's second nature? Don't have to think about it, does it automatically? Or will it always be a conscious effort? o-o

This also doubles as a PTW! :D
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 12:16:05 pm »

I have yet to read some of the more recent messages in this thread, hope that's okay.

It seems to me I'm sort of similar and sort of different, personally. I think for me, emotions, when they do come, tend to come naturally and automatically, and I don't decide on experiencing them (maybe expressing them, though1) consciously. However, I sometimes feel like emotions don't come to me as readily as they do for some other people. I don't seem to be as bothered by negative things happening, especially when they're the major types of things (death, loss of friendship, etc.) that it seems people typically feel the worst about. A notable exception to this is a romantic break-up. At the same time, I often get more bothered by little things, like when I get into a discussion with an anonymous person online who, from my point of view, acts in a very bigoted way, and won't listen to reason. And I think I'm more likely than other people to feel bad about very specific things such as not achieving as much as I want, academically.

Now, honestly, I don't think it's entirely ordinary to be this way with emotions, in the sense that I think it's somewhat away from the mean, if you will, looking at the whole experiencing-emotion thing as a kind of spectrum. But my talking about it as a spectrum already implies there would be some variation, and I think that's natural, so in that sense it's not necessarily abnormal, either. If you get to some extreme, you might be an outlier, and that might be kind of like being abnormal, but I couldn't say if that applied to you.

If it did, though, I still wouldn't hold it against you, nor do I think you yourself should. This may just be me personally, but I tend to think people should be judged, if at all, on their actions, not their thoughts or feelings. If you never feel bad for a person, but you still are nice and sympathetic toward them and help them out if they're in pain -- as in fact it sounds from your original post you tend to do -- then I think that's good, and I don't see why anybody would or should get down on you for that. Especially considering that to a large extent, you can't help the way you are, particularly concerning things like this. That might be the most important thing to keep in mind, for that small part of yourself that was worried about it rather than just interested in a more academic way.

I also think -- and I hope this is not going to be a controversial thing for me to say -- that on these boards, you are more likely to find a larger proportion of people similar to you in this sense than in the general population. Some people are more geared toward the rational than toward the emotional -- there's some link to autism here, although I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case if you are anything like this2 -- and I think people who are generally a bit like that might be more likely to enjoy Dwarf Fortress. (There's a reason they say it's "the ultimate autism simulation" and similar such sentiments, although I think it often times is used as a kind of disparaging remark... which it doesn't need to be, I think.)

Anyway, I hope I made it sufficiently clear that I don't mean to make any presumptions about people, individually or as a group, and even if I did, I don't consider any of the characteristics I discussed as being anything negative, anyhow. But I don't.

1 - It seems in your original post you were referring mostly to deciding to express the emotion(s) rather than actually experience them, but it still sounded like that might be a part of it as well. I think that's a relevant distinction to make.
2 - In fact, I'm kind of the same way and I'm not autistic (I was tested), although I have some characteristics that point in that general direction.
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Solifuge

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 01:17:30 pm »

When I was talking about "Expressing" emotion, I meant both external actions based on that emotion (Grief begets crying, happiness begets smiling, etc) as well as internal feelings based on the emotion (Grief begets internal distress, happiness begets internal excitement, etc,). To not "Express" them would be to just recognize that the potential to feel them is there, but discarding it for the time being.
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 01:21:00 pm »

Ah, I see, so it was a use of the word "express" similar to how genes are expressed in an organism. If the emotion is "expressed" then it comes to be felt as well as shown. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Pnx

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 02:21:18 pm »

I do frequently say that a lot of the time I feel more like a robot imitating emotions than I do an ordinary human being experiencing them.

Honestly I'm not entirely certain if it's unhealthy, it's certainly not that uncommon...
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Vector

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 08:44:04 pm »

Can someone in that position get to the point where it's second nature? Don't have to think about it, does it automatically? Or will it always be a conscious effort? o-o

How much do you have to consciously think about riding a bike?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Psychology, thought, and the nature of emotion
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 08:53:52 pm »

Soli, what you are describing is a form of metacognition: thinking about your thoughts. It's a normal thing and is attributed as to how we are capable of acting against our emotional drive.
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