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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 290440 times)

wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #900 on: June 15, 2015, 02:45:52 am »

Actually, the non-integrability argument is given only for a narrowly defined interpretation. Specifically the Louisville sense.

There IS a paper on that subject.
http://paperity.org/p/19194125/non-integrability-of-the-three-body-problem

However, that does not state that the problem is non-integral in the general sense. That has yet to be proven. As such, there is still value to be had in working it.

Again, logical conflation between "Some" and "all" in your counter arguments.

Is it probably non-integral? Probably. That doesn't mean it is though.  That's like asking if the Riemann hypothesis is probably true.  It probably is- but we dont know that for sure.

(and yeah, we cool. I just wish you would stop with the "Please pedantically define all your verbiage" stuff, and just ask something like "You mean the orbits are basically circles, right?" to get your clarification. There's language, and then there's jargon. It's not sociable to insist on jargon. ;P  Going tit for tat for half a page is not really productive, and angers other posters.)

« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 03:15:45 am by wierd »
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #901 on: June 15, 2015, 05:17:06 am »

Then again, science as a field stands on using well-delineated definitions for concepts and terms. It can be annoying perhaps, but it's important nonetheless to use correct terminology if you wanna have a serious discussion. Otherwise, misunderstandings aplenty.

Then again again, it's a forum about a dwarf game on the internet, so rigorous verbiage might not be really necessary.  ;)
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #902 on: June 15, 2015, 06:21:46 am »

Do you grok Hamiltonian mechanics, wierd?
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Rose

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #904 on: June 28, 2015, 10:46:27 am »

The new aerodynamic model is pretty hard to get the hang of, after all.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #905 on: June 28, 2015, 11:41:02 am »

That explains that shockwave I heard earlier today as I was waking up. I was disappointed to miss the *apparent* launch (I tend to have little to no awareness of when anything's being done). On the bright side, at least nobody was inside it when it happened.

EDIT:
Credit to much of my lack of awareness is thanks to the news being more about gloom and doom (rendering me no longer interested in the news since it's status quo), and NASA's way back on the backburner to the point of being a post-it note on an office lunch for local news.

I love when anything relating to our future is overshadowed by our present "news" which is focused on Trump cards, and celebrity politics. We don't dream anymore.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 10:10:32 pm by Itnetlolor »
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #906 on: June 28, 2015, 11:42:04 am »

Considering how new at this game SpaceX is, their launch record is still shockingly positive.

That's a very good sign to me.
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alway

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #907 on: June 28, 2015, 01:53:51 pm »

So, using a youtube video of the launch since it's easier to point out timestamps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNymhcTtSQ
Initial burst begins at 3:19-3:20. Looking closely shows it's quite obviously the upper stage that start it off, which was later confirmed on Twitter by Elon Musk. That was the 2nd stage having some sort of pressure related problem. As it's going, the first stage continues to burn nicely for several seconds before the actual explosion. Until that point, it appears more like an extremely rapid leak of stuff from the second stage rather than a full-on explosion.

Another interesting thing to note: The Dragon capsule seems to have generally survived the rapid unplanned disassembly. From 3:23 to about 3:25, you can see the capsule coming off and flying up to the top of the screen, appearing as a dark shape in the clouds of stuff. According to the NASA press release about the incident, it supposedly continued to send telemetry data after the explosion occurred. I don't think they mentioned if it survived, as it did have parachutes and so in theory may have been able to. However, it sounded like it probably impacted the water and was destroyed. I think it's unlikely they had any craft in the area to spot it even if it did land safely, but we'll see. In any case, from what I recall, this version of the Dragon Capsule does not have the fancy launch-abort system they plan to use for the Dragon V2 human-rated capsule, so it's likely the capsule didn't so much eject itself as it just got severed from the rest of the rocket due to the rapid disassembling going on between it and the first stage.
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sneakey pete

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #908 on: June 29, 2015, 02:48:30 am »

Sucks. Will be interesting to see what they can determine, as they have a zillion camera's on these rockets, not to mention i'm sure a lot of telemetry like pressure signals and so on.
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RedKing

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #909 on: July 07, 2015, 04:50:40 pm »

So....New Horizons had a CTD and reboot over the weekend, but NASA says it's okay now, and ready to start beginning doing !!SCIENCE!! as of...today.

According to a synopsis of the briefing, here's what happened:

  • The anomaly related to the main computer being asked to do two computationally intensive tasks at once, and they were more than the computer could handle, so New Horizons switched to the backup computer, entered safe mode, stopped science, and called for help from Earth.
(That'll teach some young NASA engineer to try and run Dwarf Fortress on a space probe...)
  • Science activities will resume on July 7 at 9:45 PT / 12:45 ET / 16:45 UT.
(which means SCIENCE IS ALREADY HAPPENING, BITCHES)
  • 30 planned science observations were lost between July 3 and July 7, none of them required for the top-level science goals of the mission.


Lesson learned: when you're sending a space probe nine and a half years away....spring for the extra RAM.

Science already learned? Pluto is red. Textbooks for decades have always shown Pluto as blue, purple or grey. Turns out it's more of a reddish brown. Not from iron oxide as on Mars, but more likely from when cosmic radiation hits Pluto's atmosphere, forming complex organic molecules called tholins. Tholins have also been found on Titan, Triton and Ixion.




Meanwhile, DAWN also had a system glitch on July 30. Nothing major but NASA is being cautious and delaying dropping the probe down to the next mapping orbit until they've fully analyzed what happened. Since it's in a stable orbit and ion propulsion has such an efficient delta-V, there's no "window" to worry about missing.

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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #910 on: July 07, 2015, 04:59:18 pm »

In retrospect, I recall that far images of Pluto and Charon were indeed fairly red.
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Putnam

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #911 on: July 07, 2015, 05:27:15 pm »

Textbooks have been wrong for the past while, then, since Pluto's been thought to be red for a long time.

RedKing

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #912 on: July 07, 2015, 05:30:37 pm »

Tholins are pretty interesting stuff, because there's some theorizing that they may have been the precursor to amino acids on Earth. They don't exist on Earth naturally anymore, because they oxidize very readily in the presence of free oxygen, but on a frozen methane iceball, they hang around quite a while as aerosol before eventually condensing into a red sludge.

Back in 1986, Carl Sagan was part of scientific team that synthesized Titan tholins in the laboratory and played around with subjecting it to different planetary chemistry effects, such as introducing water. What they found was that the tholins would break down into a host of compounds, including amino acids. The thought then follows that early Earth would have had a nitrogen-methane atmosphere suitable for producing tholins from solar radiation. Those tholins then reacted with a sufficient quantity of water (a comet perhaps) to produce a large amount of various amino acids, which (and here's the handwavium, at least from my limited understanding) eventually self-organized into the earliest cellular life.

There's an alternate explanation as well -- many common soil bacteria can subsist purely on tholins, deriving both carbon and energy. There may have already been bacteria on the primordial Earth, happily munching tholins when suddenly (in geologic time) those tholins start disappearing and they're awash in amino acids. This could have produced evolutionary pressure to start incorporating those amino acids into their own increasingly complex structures and allowing them alternative metabolisms that weren't dependent on tholins.

The upshot is that although unlikely, it's entirely possible that bacterial life could be living under that blanket of red sludge on Pluto. Not sure what that would look like, given the temperature extreme, but it's theoretically possible.
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #913 on: July 07, 2015, 11:50:55 pm »

Dont need handwavium there.  The late heavy bombardment would have supplied sufficient numbers of high energy kinetic impacts to cause the formation of complex organic compounds from amino acid soup, as evidenced by a number of pressure synthesis studies. (Basically, put amino acids into a pressurizable cruicble, then slam a heavy iron slug into it with force roughly equivalent to that of a meteoric impact. Under such impact stresses, complex compounds are formed from the amino acids, some of which strongly resemble simple protiens.)



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RedKing

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #914 on: July 09, 2015, 11:08:39 am »

Neat new item: Astronomers find first quintuple star system.

It's a set of two binary pairs with a single star. If I read the diagram correctly, it's a contact binary on one side of the barycenter and then a detached binary on the other side with a single star orbiting that binary.

Gravity calculations must be hella fun in that system...
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