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Duke Knight's Momentum is up for revision? Which version of the skill would you prefer?

Current one, unchanged.
+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.
Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.
I don't know but I want to see the results.

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Author Topic: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! 10 Years of FEF!  (Read 282087 times)

Sirus

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4005 on: April 20, 2018, 05:50:42 pm »

I mean, you would unless you took a PS for crit and took advantage of supports. A low-level first-class character could easily manage 20 crit or so using a PS, a Slim Sword, and maybe another 5 points from a C-rank support.
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SOLDIER First

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4006 on: April 20, 2018, 05:52:35 pm »

Nobody wants to have to do all that in order to use a class skill.
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Sirus

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4007 on: April 20, 2018, 06:09:52 pm »

The argument was that you wouldn't get much use out of the skill as proposed (15 crit for 2 damage) at low levels. I'm pointing out that you could, quite easily, be using that skill as often as you like right out of the first-class gate.

If someone isn't using crit-boosting PSs or support bonuses because they don't want those things...well, they're never going to be getting a lot of use out of any version of the class skill without using high-crit weapons like the Killing Edge.

Example: In order to use the Merc's new class skill as BMM42 wants it, you absolutely need to cap SKL to get even a single point of extra damage off it. If you don't have critting weapons, supports, or crit-boosting PSs, the skill is basically useless. Face it, if you have a class skill based around crit you need to invest in it somewhat.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:23:22 pm by Sirus »
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4008 on: April 21, 2018, 09:40:44 am »

I mean, you would unless you took a PS for crit and took advantage of supports. A low-level first-class character could easily manage 20 crit or so using a PS, a Slim Sword, and maybe another 5 points from a C-rank support.

Well that estimate brings one up to 25 crit only, not even accounting for enemy DG, so you're not getting variable amounts to trade. Hence my use of the phrase 'limited use' rather than 'unusable'.

Sirus

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4009 on: April 21, 2018, 10:06:08 am »

Enemy DG shouldn't be taken into account in the first place. Anyway, even if 15 for 2 is less flexible, you still get more bang for your buck in terms of hard numbers. More damage, and more crit to spare.
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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4010 on: April 21, 2018, 11:13:54 am »

Dg already counts for little enough. And counting it from base crit instead of final crit leads to nonsense where an enemy has 20 dg and you have 20 crit, so you generate 2-4 dam for free.

Flexibility matters. If you were offered a choice between 5 to 1 or 10 to 2, you'd take 5 to 1 because they aren't the same even though they're mathematically equivalent.

Sirus

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4011 on: April 21, 2018, 11:24:35 am »

Those two might be mathematically the same. 10-for-1 and 15-for-2 are not mathematically the same, so it isn't a real comparison.

Anyway, what's the difference between your scenario and an enemy with Fortune? You can't crit them either way, so why does one case get free damage while the other doesn't?

EDIT: I'm gonna suggest we go with 8 crit to 1 MT. It'll make calculations slightly more fiddly, but it's in that golden middle ground between all the suggested trade-offs (well, as close as you can get without involving fractions).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:48:12 am by Sirus »
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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4012 on: April 21, 2018, 12:32:19 pm »

Those two might be mathematically the same. 10-for-1 and 15-for-2 are not mathematically the same, so it isn't a real comparison.

Anyway, what's the difference between your scenario and an enemy with Fortune? You can't crit them either way, so why does one case get free damage while the other doesn't?

EDIT: I'm gonna suggest we go with 8 crit to 1 MT. It'll make calculations slightly more fiddly, but it's in that golden middle ground between all the suggested trade-offs (well, as close as you can get without involving fractions).

To answer your question regarding fortune: it doesn't actually reduce your crit to zero, it just doesn't allow a critical hit roll. In that case the skill is a counter.

Swordstar

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4013 on: April 21, 2018, 12:39:30 pm »

I helped!
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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4014 on: April 25, 2018, 05:35:37 pm »

Okay well the ghost of Rapid Strike has risen again to haunt us. Here's the current version of the skill:

During combat they initiate, the unit with this skill can choose to take a 20 hit penalty. By doing so they gain a second attack if they were not able to make one already, as if they were doubling the enemy. This does not effect the target's capacity to double attack this unit.

The skill in this current form does have some drawbacks. If you're already doubling an opponent, you essentially do not have a skill, which can deincentivize speed growth. Also its kind of clunky and inelegant in how the skill works. A couple reworked versions were proposed today.

Alpha: -20 hit on all attacks allows the unit to make an additional attack. This additional attack would do half DAM. This version produces 1.5x DAM compared to not using the skill if the pirate is only capable of a single attack, 2.5x if they double. These calculations assume the pirate does not hit or crit, incidentally.

Beta: The unit takes -15 hit and a 3/4 DAM penalty on attacks they make, and gains one additional attack. This version produces 1.5x DAM on a single attack, and 2.25x DAM on a double.

Either of these options are simpler to implement than the current Rapid Strike. I was a little reluctant at first but the more I considered it the more I liked the idea of version Beta, but that's just, like, my opinion man.

Either of these skills mean that the Pirate is going to burn through their weapons faster and get less value per attack than if they were not using it, but that's another factor to the cost of the skill, the other factors being the hit penalty and damage reductions.

The other skill coming up for discussion is the new Mage skill for the new age, Arcane Barrier.

Alpha Version comes down to thus: The unit with this skill may use their action to expend a QL from an anima tome in exchange for a beneficial effect. This effect lasts until the unit uses this skill again, overwriting the previous buff, is reduced to zero hit points which removes the effect, or is subjected to an effect that would strip buffs from the unit.
Fire tomes grant DEF, Thunder tomes grant RES, Wind tomes grant DR (or eva, this is still under discussion). The exact bonus is based on tome rank.
E and D rank tomes provide a bonus of 1 (or 5 for eva), C and B rank tomes provide a bonus of 2 (or 10 for eva), and A and S rank tomes provide 3 (15 you get it)

The idea here is that the mage can use resources to set up a defensive boost that is capable of persisting for the entire battle if they let it. This is also why the bonus is relatively low, in order to restrict a skill with high uptime from overbalancing anything.

Beta version: arcane barrier: use your action and a ql from a tome to gain a MAG/2 shield with effects:
MT/2 DR if wind
MT retaliation damage for attacks if fire
MT*2 bonus evade if thunder

This is going to be tested in FEF3 according to Solymr. I don't have a lot to say about it right now.

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4015 on: April 25, 2018, 07:51:30 pm »

BOOP BOOP DOUBLE POST

Okay so the old Mount CON affecting weapon WT thing came up again and I think it's about time this gets addressed. Currently, the rules as written are very unclear at first glance how mount CON affects your weapon WT (for anyone confused: It doesn't.), and the AID stat is literally pointless. Also currently, having a high CON score can be a bad thing, as it makes being rescued harder, since you need someone with a larger CON than yours to rescue you.

To this end I have two proposals to fix the issue. I will lead with my preferred option.

Option A -OR- Burn It All Down
We desync CON and AID from the Rescue mechanic entirely. CON becomes solely used to mitigate weapon WT, and AID is just dropped entirely, like me when I was a child. Instead, any character of the same movement type (which is to say on foot or mounted) can rescue units of that same type. Mounted units can rescue units on foot. If there is popular outcry against this idea because wyverns are heavy boys, they can have their own tier above pegasi and horses but I don't personally see the point.

Pros: We stop punishing high CON (its a slap on the wrist but a slap is a slap), and fix the friggin' "but doesn't riding a horse let me swing this 8 foot sheet of steel at people" problem.
Cons: Change is scary

Option B -OR- Aid can pull its own WT
As AID is currently a useless stat, we make it not useless. CON stops being associated associated with the Rescue Mechanic. Aid stays being CON-1, and you need higher AID than your rescue target to rescue them. Mounts effect your AID, not your CON. Pretty simple.

Pros: Finally does something with AID, fixes the 'No, your horse does not let you reload your crossbow any faster' debate.
Cons: Doesn't stop punishing high CON but that's only a CON in relation to the other solution. In a vacuum this is a straight upgrade to the current system.

Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4016 on: April 26, 2018, 01:46:05 am »

I thought I already implemented that second option in my book :v
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SOLDIER First

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4017 on: April 26, 2018, 05:56:36 am »

Rapid Strike: Option A
Arcane Barrier: Option A
CON/AID Debacle: Option B pls
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 08:48:52 am by Sentient Bowtie »
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SeriousConcentrate

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4018 on: April 26, 2018, 07:03:29 am »

Rapid Strike: Option B
Magic Barrier or whatever: Option A
Mounted CON/AID: Option A
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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4019 on: April 26, 2018, 08:42:52 am »

Rapid Strike: Whichever, honestly.
Arcane Barrier: Option B, though I'd rather tie it to rank than to individual tome MT
Mounted CON/AID: Option B
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