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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 971094 times)

Rolan7

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5580 on: August 16, 2016, 10:34:16 pm »

Wow Kot, thanks for that theorycrafting!  Entertaining (thanks for the pictures :D) and seems quite plausible.

Not sure why some people think Tau would be at all weak against Chaos due to not "seeing" it.  They see Chaos creatures just fine (it's not like EYE Divine Cybermancy where chaos beings don't show up through cyber-optics).  They're just immune to the corruption.  They don't get to use psychers, but other than that they're perfect for fighting chaos.  I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bonus against certain chaos magicks due to lack of soul and stuff.  Though I'm sure summoned flames and daemons hurt them just fine.

Order vs Chaos?
Is that even a contest?
Eh, heretics gonna heretic (;
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Xantalos

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5581 on: August 16, 2016, 10:34:31 pm »

They kinda all died, so not really 4ever.
Death? Oh no. They transcended. They became the ultimate scaly lizard dinosaur gods.

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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5582 on: August 16, 2016, 10:43:26 pm »

Not sure why some people think Tau would be at all weak against Chaos due to not "seeing" it.  They see Chaos creatures just fine (it's not like EYE Divine Cybermancy where chaos beings don't show up through cyber-optics).  They're just immune to the corruption.  They don't get to use psychers, but other than that they're perfect for fighting chaos.  I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bonus against certain chaos magicks due to lack of soul and stuff.  Though I'm sure summoned flames and daemons hurt them just fine.
The problem is that they're so weak in the soul the lack of power becomes more of a detriment than the lack of notice is a benefit. Tau would not be resistant to magic, they have souls, but those souls are merely small compared to humans and eldar. Resistance is only conveyed by a negative warp signature.

Like, the Tau would have no chance against dealing with a rampaging daemonhost that needs to be banished, because they have no banishers. They can't attack daemons for real without psykers, and they can't use psykers to detect hidden Chaos presence. They've got no chance.
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Taricus

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5583 on: August 16, 2016, 10:49:34 pm »

On the flip side having no psykers of their own means the chance of having to deal with a daemon possessing one of them is tiny, same with corruption.

Though I'm pretty sure daemonhosts can be banished by just blasting them with ordinance. Can't do much in the material realm if the one anchor to it is suddenly gibs :P
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Egan_BW

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5584 on: August 16, 2016, 10:50:10 pm »

They have gratuitous firepower, which is just as good as a psyker, any day.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5585 on: August 16, 2016, 11:51:33 pm »

Not sure why some people think Tau would be at all weak against Chaos due to not "seeing" it.  They see Chaos creatures just fine (it's not like EYE Divine Cybermancy where chaos beings don't show up through cyber-optics).  They're just immune to the corruption.  They don't get to use psychers, but other than that they're perfect for fighting chaos.  I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bonus against certain chaos magicks due to lack of soul and stuff.  Though I'm sure summoned flames and daemons hurt them just fine.
The problem is that they're so weak in the soul the lack of power becomes more of a detriment than the lack of notice is a benefit. Tau would not be resistant to magic, they have souls, but those souls are merely small compared to humans and eldar. Resistance is only conveyed by a negative warp signature.

Like, the Tau would have no chance against dealing with a rampaging daemonhost that needs to be banished, because they have no banishers. They can't attack daemons for real without psykers, and they can't use psykers to detect hidden Chaos presence. They've got no chance.
Not resistance per se, no, but harder to notice.

Also, Emperor take you MSH. Seriously. Nagi. Nicassar. Hell, fucking Kroot probably have psykers when they eat enough Eldar, Weirdboyz, or even human psykers. They certainly have their own warp travel, which requires psykers of some sort or another. Like, if you wanna make jokes about the Tau having no souls, whatever, but don't just ignore a whole aspect of their style. It's not just grayskins, ya panzy gits, dey've got plenty uv udder gitz wif em to fite too

Also, they science everything.  Even if you wanna say they don't yet take Chaos seriously (which I think they do, though maybe not as seriously as they should because they haven't had the Horus Heresy to terrify them into Ecclesiarchy), as soon as the first Daemons hit, it's not just silly folklore about spirits in the night. It's an enemy that can appear at almost any time with very little warning that infects people simply via proximity into becoming slowly brainwashed, with their largest new assimilated species as it's primary host mechanism. That gets people's attention. They've fought Chaos before, and are doing so now. They have lost worlds to Chaos Warbands, in fact, if I remember right. This isn't a 'DERPADURR' thing anymore. The side effect of GW (or the purpose? I dunno) making them edgier and grimdarker is that they become less naive, which means they get the issue with Chaos. They don't see it as Public Enemy #1 like the Imperium does, because for them, it isn't. They don't have the vulnerabilities of a massive and growing psyker population which has no self-direction or willpower because of a total war economy and indoctrination. I make that second point because the Eldar also have a massive psyker population, they just also happen to have metric shittons of self-direction, to the point of living two full careers, essentially, to maintain discipline and keep themselves occupied and engaged with life to avoid She Who Thirsts.

Tau don't ascribe as much danger to Chaos as they probably should as they start to agglomerate a large human population. They're smart enough to advance to nearly Imperial tech levels, or better (sorta, I get that the Imperium has better weapons, but they certainly don't have the means of producing them in the same relative quantity) in five millenia from pre-sentient life. That should be enough to give you an idea of how quickly they develop stuff.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5586 on: August 16, 2016, 11:56:27 pm »

The Tau literally still think Slaanesh is some Chaos Space Marine champion they killed.
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Taricus

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5587 on: August 17, 2016, 12:06:05 am »

Which honestly is pretty hilarious. Leads to just about every CSM they come across calling themselves slaanesh :P
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5588 on: August 17, 2016, 12:22:14 am »

The Tau literally still think Slaanesh is some Chaos Space Marine champion they killed.
Yeah.

They still killed it.

They'll still kill the next one.
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Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5589 on: August 17, 2016, 12:52:46 am »

Ok, this has gotten out of hand. Kot, your pro-Imperial attitude is both agreeable and objectively correct, but you're dispensing a lot of false information here that I need to address.

(I would want to remind you that Necron weapon against C'Tan was Blackstone Fortresses and those are shooting literal Warp - since C'Tan couldn't exist in Warp they got shrekt)
The Necrons did not create the Blackstone Fortresses. The Blackstone Fortresses were indeed invented as anti-C'tan weapons but it wasn't the Necrons who built them. The Blackstone Fortresses were actually created by Vaul, the Eldar Smith God. Necrons don't do Warptech.

I should also mention that it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that - the human Pariah Gene, the one that is responsible for existence of Blanks, was deliberately engineered into humanity by Necrons back during the War in Heaven.
The Necrons did not give humanity the Pariah Gene. The Necrons went into hibernation at the end of the War in Heaven and hadn't begun awakening until long after humanity had been born. The War in Heaven ended 60 million years before humanity had evolved into existence. Human blanks are still a mystery of 40k.

Big E (remember that he stole some of his plot powers from Chaos Gods)
He did not. He gained his powers by being the culmination of tens of thousands of human psykers who each had more Warp experience than friggin Eldrad due to their power to reincarnate.

which later came to (quite literally) fuck Cegorach in ass
Cegorach came out of the Fall of the Eldar completely unscathed, the only one of the Eldar Gods to do so.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5590 on: August 17, 2016, 12:59:53 am »

Necrons did in fact insert pariah genes into the ancestors of humanity, as far as I remember, Andres.

And Empy is in fact implied to have gained some portion of his powers from Chaos. He gained the ability to even negotiate with them by being a disgusting abomination of alchemical soul magicks, but still.

Cegorach was...mostly unscathed. Mostly. Slaanesh probably got in a good spank here or there.
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Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5591 on: August 17, 2016, 01:31:58 am »

Necrons did in fact insert pariah genes into the ancestors of humanity, as far as I remember, Andres.
You either remember wrongly or the person you remember getting the information from was incorrect.

And Empy is in fact implied to have gained some portion of his powers from Chaos.
There was one source that suggested this and it was suggested by someone from Chaos. Chaos frequently uses full lies to get what they want.
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Taricus

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5592 on: August 17, 2016, 01:34:33 am »

The necrons inserting the pariah gene into humanity was part of the necron's old fluff. No idea how it stands up to the new fluff.
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Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5593 on: August 17, 2016, 01:38:10 am »

The necrons inserting the pariah gene into humanity was part of the necron's old fluff. No idea how it stands up to the new fluff.
Ah, it was probably retconned then. Necron pariahs were also removed because GW wanted to emphasize the faction's non-Warpiness and I think they were right to do so.
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Neonivek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5594 on: August 17, 2016, 03:03:01 am »

The necrons inserting the pariah gene into humanity was part of the necron's old fluff. No idea how it stands up to the new fluff.
Ah, it was probably retconned then. Necron pariahs were also removed because GW wanted to emphasize the faction's non-Warpiness and I think they were right to do so.

It also helps that Games Workshop has ADD :P and switches who they want to focus on.
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