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[mainiac]

Also, mainiac, this is a thread about fictional universes fighting each other. No need to become hostile

I'm not getting defensive, I'm getting frustrated.  You take something that is blindingly obvious and then people nickle and dime it with a million sidetracks.  It's frustrating.

And frankly when you tell someone they are being defensive YOU are being something a lot worse then defensive.

Look there are basically three propositions here:

1) A star wars ship is larger   <----- This seems reasonable
2) A star wars ship has a higher energy output   <------ This seems to depend entirely on arbitrary selection between different expanded universe crap
3) The Star Wars economy is larger  <------- This takes the stuff from step 2 and then runs it through extrapolation so that the movies are no longer recognizable
4) A star trek ship can accomplish more per joule of energy then a star wars ship   <-------- This is what I've been trying to say seems really blindingly obvious to me

[Rolepgeek]

That last doesn't seem that obvious, nor does it seem entirely relevant, though. Do you mean doing a variety of things with that energy, or accomplishing them more efficiently?

Because the first one I can sorta concede, simply because most Star Trek Federation ships are not ships of war (Star Wars does, in fact, have stealth technology, albeit not 'make the ship literally invisible' cloaking (actually I think it might, I'm not so sure on that)). At least officially.

But it's not about sheer energy output, either. 40k wins a lot of things because it's just about as over-the-top as you can get, and they did it intentionally, and they did it in every possible theater. I'm usually arguing against the ludicrous numbers presented for it, but Star Wars still definitely loses to it. Star Trek is a much more peaceful universe, which is I think why most of the time people see it as weaker. I think it's mostly the engagement range and the strike craft that push it into Star Wars favor. Different methods of shielding and the like, too. Complaining about inconsistencies in stats between ships is another thing entirely.

Star Wars ships of equal size to a given Star Trek ship probably have lower energy use/needs. But it's hard to tell, and most Star Wars ships are much bigger, and are going to put out more energy. They're also purpose built for war, in the vast majority of cases.

EDIT: The economy thing is super obvious to me. Everything I've seen from the games and additional canon stuff says that Star Wars is basically over the entire galaxy. Federation isn't. And if you're comparing Star Trek as a whole, then Q and company makes discussion useless and shunts everything up to around 40k because Q may as well be a Chaos God. If you're just doing the stuff that isn't obscene and higher dimension being related, then it becomes about the Borg, not the Federation.

[mainiac]

That last doesn't seem that obvious, nor does it seem entirely relevant, though. Do you mean doing a variety of things with that energy, or accomplishing them more efficiently?

Those posts you thought were me getting defensive were me repeatedly trying to explain this until I got frustrated.



 

[Kot]

I am now 95% sure you're defensive, frustrated and "salty" about this discussion, tbh.

[mainiac]

Kot, stop acting so jealous.  Just because you feel inadequate doesn't mean you need to act so jealous.

[Tack]

Also popping in to say 40k doesn't have magic- it has Space Magic.

When thought about "scientifically", it's people with psychic potential reaching into an alternate dimension where the laws of physics don't apply and siphoning some of that improbability in order to make impossible things manifest in the real world.
With the added addendum that the pocket dimension contains some malevolent and incomprehensably powerful beings which feed and grow in strength from the emotions of all races able to interact with that pocket dimension. Trek, Wars and Gate all have stuff just as weird.

Which makes me wonder why, if Daleks are fair game, we're using the imperium of Man instead of, say... The C'tan and Necrontyr.

[Rolepgeek]

I mean, Chaos Gods and C'tan are probably all on that same level of 'mindbogglingly, unentertainingly powerful'. So whatevs.

[Tack]

Well, I did just google "Xeelee vs C'tan", and found that the Xeelee would almost certainly win, so I think this is the power level we're working at now.

Which would also mean the Star Wars power level would probably be better served by using the old republic, rather than the empire. Y'know, before all that "thousands of years of stagnation".

[mainiac]

I'm unclear on how the old republic was more powerful.  Could you elaborate?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The C'tan are a strange one because they're the "physical gods" to the Ruinous Powers' "spiritual gods". So, while amazingly powerful, they can be injured or killed far more easily than the Chaos Gods. Even being broken into small shards for over a million years didn't kill them, but that doesn't mean they're immortal.

[Kot]

Kot, stop acting so jealous.  Just because you feel inadequate doesn't mean you need to act so jealous.

If anyone here is jealous, it's you, because you're not Polish thus you can't have Winged Hussars. :*


Also, I am pretty sure that Empire was way more powerful. Taking old EU into mind, that means Eclipses, ridiculous amounts of various versions of Death Stars floating around (Lemelisk was a busy man), those things that killed suns and the sheer number of ISDs which are pretty much way better than anything before.
New canon you need to take out a lot of this stuff, and while Starkiller Base technically doesn't count because it's not Empire anymore, I guess they still had a lot of cool stuff.

[mainiac]

If anyone here is jealous, it's you, because you're not Polish thus you can't have Winged Hussars. :*

God dude. CHILL OUT.  It's just a conversation.  Stop acting so angry.

[Tack]

mainiac you just hit poe's line. Ceasetime.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Gentlemen, you can't season in here! This is the Salt Room!

[mainiac]

mainiac you just hit poe's line. Ceasetime.

Tack, please stop this absolutely unreasonable conversation!  You should know better!

(Seriously though, you were fine when they were doing it and now you want to ride in like a white knight and referee?)