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Author Topic: Total War: Warhammer! Now with 2! And 3!  (Read 491570 times)

Majestic7

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #510 on: April 13, 2016, 02:16:27 am »

Well, I'm pretty sure an armored knight and an armored warhorse are a combination more massive than an average orc boy (big ones not counting). Despite this, heavy cavalry was not used to charge pikes unless there were situational advantages. The bigger the attacker is and the harder they charge the pikes, the worse they'll impale themselves. Plus if the first rank of pikes breaks, there are many more ranks behind them.
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Cruxador

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #511 on: April 13, 2016, 11:08:10 am »

Is there any explanation for the lack of pikes? It seems stupid considering Warhamster is all fake renaissance and pikes defined the era historically. I mean, zweihanders and halberds were used to counter the pikes... although I suppose in WH they are used against tough monsters. Still, I imagine pikes would be excellent in, say, stopping ork charges.
I think it's just a matter of no major faction being based on a Latin and southern European nation, and those are the ones who are best known for pikes. The Spanish and Swiss in particular. I know the Germans used them heavily as well, but they still tend to get overshadowed in the retrospective milieu by the anti-pike weapons – the ones that the Empire uses heavily.

Not really. I would guess it would partly be due to difficulty when it comes to the tabletop. How pikes would allocate hits if charged or charging, turning and reforming, ranks and number of hits and so on.
There is precedent for some of those mechanics though, spears have been able to hit using the first two, or three for High Elves, ranks when charged and elves have the "Always strike first" rule. I don't think there is really an answer for the lack of pikes.
Mechanics aren't the reason. Although it's a problem, it's a solvable problem (as the things you cite illustrate). If GW really wanted to add pikes, they would have.

Reading the wikis, I notice a lot of Tilian troops / mercenaries use pikes.
I don't suppose anyone can find anything about how they work mechanically?

Well, I'm pretty sure an armored knight and an armored warhorse are a combination more massive than an average orc boy (big ones not counting). Despite this, heavy cavalry was not used to charge pikes unless there were situational advantages. The bigger the attacker is and the harder they charge the pikes, the worse they'll impale themselves. Plus if the first rank of pikes breaks, there are many more ranks behind them.
What makes them good pike-breakers isn't the forward motion, it's the lateral motion. Halberds and zweihanders achieve this by being long, but orks can achieve this by being real strong. A horse is also strong, but doesn't add this strength to the strikes of the wielder and can't attack with transverse blows; the kind needed to break pikes.
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Mech#4

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Kaypy:Adamantine in a poorly defended fortress is the royal equivalent of an unclaimed sock on a battlefield.

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umiman

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #513 on: April 13, 2016, 11:42:46 am »

Funnily enough, Creative Assembly have just put up a video on the forums, a challenge of an army of empire handgunner vs zombies where in the unit list near the beginning of the video it seems like the Empire do have pikemen to choose from.

Under infantry it looks like pikemen, spearmen, swordsmen, halberdiers, greatswords.
Good. No pikes would be probably one of the firsts in TW history. Even Shogun had them in Oda's long yari infantry.

By the way, anyone else notice how massive the potential unit battle sizes were in that custom game screen?

Edit:

No it's probably not. It corresponds to the already existing unit list:

Melee Infantry:

- Halberdiers

- Spearmen

- Swordsmen

- Spearmen (Shields)

- Greatswords

Teneb

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #514 on: April 13, 2016, 11:53:05 am »

From left to right, the infantry seems to be: spearmen, shielded spearmen, swordsmen, halbediers, greatswords.
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Mech#4

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #515 on: April 13, 2016, 12:17:00 pm »

Ah, of course. Sorry about that.


I believe the custom battles are up to 40 units. Going by previous Total War games, campaign battles will be up to 40 as well if you have either two armies nearby or are joined by an ally. Though, thinking, did that add the other units into the battle from the beginning or did it keep them in reserve until the count dropped below 20?
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Teneb

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #516 on: April 13, 2016, 12:19:30 pm »

I think from Rome 2 onwards there was an option to either allow up to 40 units on either side or to keep them in reserve.
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sambojin

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #517 on: April 13, 2016, 09:51:11 pm »

In WH, Pikes = Regiments of Renown or Border Princes. Ie: Mercenary regiments, fluff them how you want.

If CA does this for their "second race" release, it'll be awesome.
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Teneb

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #518 on: April 13, 2016, 10:17:01 pm »

In WH, Pikes = Regiments of Renown or Border Princes. Ie: Mercenary regiments, fluff them how you want.

If CA does this for their "second race" release, it'll be awesome.
I guess pikes'll be if and when the Estilean become playable. If. Because aside from Dogs of War, they got nothing on the Tabletop.
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Teneb

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #519 on: April 14, 2016, 01:33:14 pm »

Double post, but a new trailer. The narration is kind of wierdly-paced, but it shows off bretonnian architecture, as well as Archaon's fancy helmet.
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umiman

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #520 on: April 14, 2016, 10:23:31 pm »

I watched an episode of Rally Point where one of the devs was talking about how she likes to play as the Empire and lo and behold... SHE FUCKING TURTLES THE FUCKING TURTLE SCUM.

Quote from: Heathen Turtle Scum
"I will try to put my artillery on a hill, preferably in a corner"

Seriously though, here's the video link: https://youtu.be/Oq98UfLVDIo?t=1m16s

The video also covers how diplomacy works. It looks very similar to Rome 2. Actually it looks identical to it.

Majestic7

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #521 on: April 15, 2016, 12:22:10 am »

I wonder if diplomacy is just as idiotic as before. Huh, it will be interesting to see how this compared to the Call of the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2. It already lacks several things present in the mod, like mercenaries (they had unique merc warbands), while having totally non-essential stuff like guiding goblin kamikazes.
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Teneb

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #522 on: April 15, 2016, 05:51:31 am »

I wonder if diplomacy is just as idiotic as before. Huh, it will be interesting to see how this compared to the Call of the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2. It already lacks several things present in the mod, like mercenaries (they had unique merc warbands), while having totally non-essential stuff like guiding goblin kamikazes.
How dare you slander the name of the holy doom diver?

I watched an episode of Rally Point where one of the devs was talking about how she likes to play as the Empire and lo and behold... SHE FUCKING TURTLES THE FUCKING TURTLE SCUM.

Quote from: Heathen Turtle Scum
"I will try to put my artillery on a hill, preferably in a corner"
There is a turtling army (dwarfs)... and she decides to take the empire's versatility and bloody turtle. I'm a scrub and this still disgusts me.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #523 on: April 15, 2016, 07:36:25 am »

I wonder if diplomacy is just as idiotic as before.

You fucking Betcha, most likly crippeld multiplayer as usual.

#Modswillfixit
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Cruxador

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Re: Total War: Warhammer!
« Reply #524 on: April 15, 2016, 11:12:59 am »

How can you "turtle" in a tactics situation? Seems to me it's just a defensive tactic and entirely worthwhile when you've got a good lot of artillery.
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