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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[TD1]

Evil is as evil does. Mormons have so far proven themselves to be as morally tepid as most other people in my estimation.

[Frumple]

I mean... they're a largely right-wing stateside protestant group, so... as an organization they're at least somewhat evil, by most heuristics for the term. Not particularly intensely evil, but it's a passel of groups with a history of nasty shit that's pretty much guaranteed to keep doing and supporting a disproportionate amount of nasty shit going forward *shrugs*

They're better than the southern baptist convention, at least!

My cat's shit out stuff with better moral turpitude than that mess, though, so...

[Magmacube_tr]

Dear bay watchers ! Having read Conan Doyle's a study in scarlet, is there anyone who could tell me more about the Mormons , it seems that they are evil , is that right ?

They suck.

[TD1]

Hmmm, in fairness my only real exposure to Mormons are the random ones standing outside Unis and Brandon Sanderson's work.

[zhijinghaofromchina]

Thanks bay watchers for your kind replies !

According to my limited knowledge of the religions , my questions are as follows.

Firstly in Victor Hugo’s the miserable, the series show that the religion plays a positive role in awakening the humanity inside a seemingly evil man .

Second in the TV series the Dopesick the victims of drug abuse were trying to escape from the prison of OxyContin but they failed, desperately and poorly , end up with a horrible death.

 How do you think about the facts above?

Thirdly several days ago a stranger contacted me accidentally he asked if I am a Christian, and he wanted to make me become one, I am not religious ,how to reject him politely?

By the way if I want to know more the western religions what books should I read?

[MaxTheFox]

Mor(m)ons.

[Magmacube_tr]

Mor(m)ons.

GOTTEM

[Strongpoint]

I dunno. I like Mormons. I love creative people who add cool fanfiction to existing fictional universes*. We need more people who expand literature classics like the Bible not less. Maybe then people will get that the source of all "holy texts" is exactly the same - human imagination.



*as long as it is not Disney Star Wars 'sequels'

[Frumple]

I mean, sure, but there's far more copacetic groups, like some of the christobuddhists or whatever they are. Knew a radical ordained christian preacher/minister (old college prof, though I forget which denominations they originated from) at one point that had published some stuff on possible connections between jesus and buddhism (stuff like investigating the possibly ol' streaker J took off eastwards after resurrection, iirc), and there's denominations out there holding beliefs along those lines.

They're not nearly as large as the mormons, but it's not like there aren't groups that expand on canon that have far less baggage. There's piles of 'em, really.

[MaxTheFox]

I mean, sure, but there's far more copacetic groups, like some of the christobuddhists or whatever they are. Knew a radical ordained christian preacher/minister (old college prof, though I forget which denominations they originated from) at one point that had published some stuff on possible connections between jesus and buddhism (stuff like investigating the possibly ol' streaker J took off eastwards after resurrection, iirc), and there's denominations out there holding beliefs along those lines.

They're not nearly as large as the mormons, but it's not like there aren't groups that expand on canon that have far less baggage. There's piles of 'em, really.

I almost went that way but decided not to. With my faith crisis over, and my specific sect of Protestantism being fully baked into my new, entrenched worldview and ideology, I likely never will.

[Schmaven]

Thanks bay watchers for your kind replies !

According to my limited knowledge of the religions , my questions are as follows.

Firstly in Victor Hugo’s the miserable, the series show that the religion plays a positive role in awakening the humanity inside a seemingly evil man .

Second in the TV series the Dopesick the victims of drug abuse were trying to escape from the prison of OxyContin but they failed, desperately and poorly , end up with a horrible death.

 How do you think about the facts above?

Thirdly several days ago a stranger contacted me accidentally he asked if I am a Christian, and he wanted to make me become one, I am not religious ,how to reject him politely?

By the way if I want to know more the western religions what books should I read?

I have seen people transform their behavior into more kind, compassionate ways because of religion, so I think it has some real value for society in that regard.

To politely refuse someone's conversion attempts, I usually just talk with them, and point out specifically what I disagree with about being converted to their beliefs.  But also bringing up what I believe instead of / in place of what they believe.  However, those sort of people typically will talk over you and  bring up dozens of things I take issue with before there's even a chance to say anything.  It's okay to ask them to repeat themselves, and also to just admit that you don't have 4 hours right now to discuss the matter.

That being said, I have learned a lit from such long discussions, despite their failures to convert me.  As long as you maintain respect for the other person, and avoid straw manning their arguement, you can approach those situations in many ways.

No idea about the books though.

[dragdeler]

(stuff like investigating the possibly ol' streaker J took off eastwards after resurrection, iirc), and there's denominations out there holding beliefs along those lines.

Jules V Christus, in 70 days around the world: eclectic buggaloo.

[Strongpoint]

I have seen people transform their behavior into more kind, compassionate ways because of religion, so I think it has some real value for society in that regard.

Because of religion or because they found a new community in which they are valued?

[Schmaven]

I have seen people transform their behavior into more kind, compassionate ways because of religion, so I think it has some real value for society in that regard.

Because of religion or because they found a new community in which they are valued?

Because of religion.

[McTraveller]

That argument that (all of) the Bible is "due to imagination" does not pass scientific muster: the gospels, at least, are almost universally accepted as being legitimate first- or second-hand accounts of some events in the early first century.

Remember, those authors didn't know they were writing "the Bible" - they were writing letters to their friends and neighbors to share what they experienced.  They are more like (auto)biographies of "hey we met this guy, and he changed our lives."  It isn't fiction.

Now, you don't have to believe the implications of everything they said - but to say it's fiction is to deny what those works actually are.

There are similar academic approaches to the Old Testament books too, including all the allegories and apocalyptic literature.  Now apocalyptic (Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, etc.) does have fantastic imagery that is fictional, but it's fiction with a purpose. Think of all the books written "in more modern times" that make social commentary. The plot of the stories may be fiction, but the commentary is not - that commentary is real.  This is what Bible scholars mean when they say the Bible is the word of God - the social commentary is the true part, not the literal words on the page (which is why people who claim only a single translation is The One are actually wrong, and need to be told that - kindly).

My personal feeling is that people that focus on the actual words are missing out - they're caught in details that don't matter. And that focus on the words, rather than the "heart of God", often generates social unrest, which seems pretty opposite to what Jesus taught about the Kingdom of God, which didn't seem to be characterized by unrest.