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Author Topic: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!  (Read 803253 times)

Darkmere

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6120 on: March 05, 2019, 11:45:39 pm »

Was there ever in all of this realism a feature that let you interrupt a task mid-way to, say, stoke a fire or whatever? Without taking the time to reverse all the progress on your task first, just to be sure you accomplished nothing while the embers died out?
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Mech#4

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6121 on: March 05, 2019, 11:56:32 pm »

Nice stuff! You've hit on one of our big sticking points about sprite size, I would say make it as big as you can get away with without it looking enormous, but try to keep it from being as big as a survivor. Err on the side of large and recognizable if in doubt.

Your style is slightly different than mine, would you mind if I edited a few details and bounced it back off you? Or you could join me in the discord at https://discord.gg/kAXNZuy and I'll discuss it with you in realtime. They look great though.

Hm, edit the image and send it to me as a PM? I don't have Nitro for Discord.
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6122 on: March 06, 2019, 12:44:38 am »

Was there ever in all of this realism a feature that let you interrupt a task mid-way to, say, stoke a fire or whatever? Without taking the time to reverse all the progress on your task first, just to be sure you accomplished nothing while the embers died out?
...yes? That was added as a feature quite a while ago. You mark a firewood source and your character keeps the fire stoked as long as there's wood. Only you don't have to interrupt your task.

Amongst all this realism talk there's a lot of talk of features to make life easier, like zone sorting and zone farming that made it possible to press shift+o and just automatically put all your gear where it goes.
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teoleo

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6123 on: March 06, 2019, 06:04:19 am »

where can I find an updated wiki?
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6125 on: March 06, 2019, 09:54:37 am »

Sadly I think the sort of person to keep a wiki up to date is also the sort of person to do content addition. The wiki isn't terrible but nobody really maintains it. The discourse forum is usually the best source for up to date info
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Slax

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6126 on: March 06, 2019, 02:04:46 pm »

Started playing again after a long hiatus. So good and it keeps getting better.
Oh, and what's this?

It's happening.
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6127 on: March 06, 2019, 02:45:53 pm »

I'm mostly excited for 0.D because I have a huge pile of PRs waiting to merge and am so frustrated waiting for it that I have started just doing tile art until it's done!

Also I love how many ancient bugs have been squashed.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6128 on: March 06, 2019, 03:10:35 pm »

 Well, after about three years of bitching(yes, really) Ive decided to take matters into my own hands and fix bayonets to A) make sense and B) be useful. Only to be unable to find the bloody things. Any ideas where they are? They arent in any of the gunmod files, they arent melee...

 For those confused, about six years ago bayonets where changed from being muzzle mods to being underbarrel. At the same time, no effort was made to allow them to be used on, for example, bolt-action rifles which mount bayonets.
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Robsoie

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6129 on: March 06, 2019, 04:07:06 pm »

notepad++ search in folder function tells me there are 10 files that has the word bayonet.
As i don't know which ones are the most relevant to what you're wanting to do, here's the list :

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Aseaheru

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6130 on: March 06, 2019, 04:35:02 pm »

 I was unaware of that function. Thank you for both giving an answer and increasing my knowledge of the system I use.
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6131 on: March 06, 2019, 05:08:45 pm »

Confusing the matter I think the "bayonet" item was removed and its function is now done by the combat knife. Item ID is knife_combat.

What is your proposed fix?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 05:42:59 pm by Erk »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6132 on: March 06, 2019, 06:47:32 pm »

(edit to add: sorry for the bitchiness above. I fell and hurt my ass and took it out on you guys, shouldn't have done that. Literally butthurt.)

I don't really see it heaped on anywhere but here. It is a mechanic that slows down resource acquisition in the early game, and makes some of the easier to acquire gear more of a choice, extending the timeframe of the (to me anyway) fun part of the early game. Generally everyone has gotten used to it; to me, it's how the game has always been, and like I said, it feels shallower without it.

I realize for a lot of the folks in this thread specifically, the game has moved in a different direction than you'd have liked, but it's been moving in that direction for what, five years now? There's now a large (very large, in fact) user base for whom those features are what brought us in. I decided to start contributing because I like playing a post apocalyptic survival simulator with zombies, and I'm by far not the only person. That's why development and forums for the game are significantly more active than they've ever been. If it's not your bag, that's too bad, I guess, but you'd probably be better off accepting at this point that "I did surgery on my own eyeball" is not going to be the direction things are developing, and "I need to build a shelter from windchill, it'll also keep my scent from spreading to that horde west of here" is.

Okay, let me try to break down the whole history of the issue for you.

This wasn't a thing under Whales. This wasn't a thing under the original CDDA dev team. This is specifically a product of Kevin and his cronies trying to force everyone to play in the specific "right" way they want people to have to play in.

Cataclysm, and DDA in its original form, had an incredible degree of player freedom. There were a lot of different things to do, and a great many different ways to go about them. Two people could play the game totally differently. In all the years I played, I never once built a deathmobile. There are people who never once carved out a bow. There are people who never installed a bionic, chugged mutagen, delved into a lab, &c.

There were also lots of people who did all of those things. The current dev mindset seems to be aimed at reducing player agency by steadily nerfing every source of player power while simultaneously adding in as much tedious sit-in-a-corner-and-wait-for-craft-timers as possible. The whole filthy clothing thing is far and away the most well-known example of the latter. It's a change which was added solely because Kevin didn't like it that other people decided to speed up their starts by picking damaged clothes off of zombies they'd killed and fixing them up, so he added an extra layer of crafting tedium dependent on a combination of resources (access to water, semi-uncommon soap mats). This was done in the name of realism, despite the system being utterly unrealistic: there is no way for clothing to become dirty, no stages of dirtiness, and no randomness (i.e. why would a fresh zombie with nothing but a tiny arm wound and a hole in the head have disgustingly dirty pants or shoes?).

This is the pattern of behavior: add pr which requires players to jump through more hoops in the name of realism and/or removes/reduces content which contributes to player power potential in the name of realism. Promise to add new content/mechanics to replace the gutted/cut content (maybe). Never actually do so, or do so years after the fact.

Look at how long guns were completely fucked for, because Kevin and co. didn't like it that people could find guns and shoot things with them without standing still for six hours to sight in on the target. Look how long it took to get a mostly not fucked up replacement system in place.

It has nothing to do with difficulty (because adding more tedium does not make the game harder) and everything to do with the combined removal of player agency and narrowing of scope. Cataclysm used to be a game which was, more than anything else, defined by all the options the player had. They're trying to force it to become a "scrounge for food and water until you die in a week or two" simulator because Kevin and a handful of vocal yes-men like that. They've even fucking booted the original setting because the cyberpunk future melange was tied to player agency and power (through bionics, mutations, high-tech guns, &c.) and turned it into contemporary New England instead... without actually changing any of the game flavor to reflect that. As always, "realism" is just an excuse for forcing people to play like them.
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Paul

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6133 on: March 06, 2019, 07:04:55 pm »

Clothes not getting dirty over time is a massive oversight that I wasn't aware of until now. They need to get on that ASAP. Exerting yourself, getting wounded, or just walking a lot should make you dirty. Filthy zombies touching you should make you filthy. We need a clothes washing minigame (such as pressing left arrow and right arrow a bunch then hitting the down key to swish, repeat) and realistic progressive filthiness like yesterday because the game is literally unplayably unrealistic. This is exactly why I haven't played the game in years, I just didn't know it.
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Darkmere

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6134 on: March 06, 2019, 08:16:32 pm »

Flying Dice nailed what I wasn't able to put into words. When I started playing and figured out the deathmobile mechanics, the game became about building a badass armored party wagon and going around looking for rare parts to do end-game stuff like labs and army bases. There was a goal to work towards - being a badass at the end because I was clever with what I was given and could scrounge up at the start.

Over time the end-game goals have dwindled because the zombie apocalypse needs to be more realistic and we just can't abide by a character who can build a car from scratch ALSO being able to wield a gun effectively. The early game slog to get to that successful playground has only gotten worse for no effective gain, as it's just busywork and button mashing. I played the game to bash zombies with a custom super-tank, not fuck around with laundry. I do enough laundry in real life.

It feels like what actually made the game unique and replayable (deathmobile? Base? bionics? mutations? Science hero or ninja? guns or bows?) is being edged out in favor of chores and garbage that make the early game even more of a pain in the ass to get to a point where you have less to do than before. I would have been fine with the tedious stuff being shunted into mods, but it's not, the trend is to force more obtuse systems in the core and remove options that I used to enjoy.

So yeah.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.
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