To be perfectly honest, you described why I hated the prequel saber fights. They threw away everything that made the saber fights in the original trilogy such pivotal scenes (the emotional intensity, the layers of meaning beneath the obvious physical conflict) in favor of flashy choreographed dances made to appeal to the sort of people who thought that Obi-Wan fighting Vader on the Death Star was stupid and boring. The Episode I fight was soulless and empty throughout except for that very brief moment where Obi-Wan was trapped in the rotating doors of plot convenience after Qui-Gon died.
Even in Return of the Jedi, when Luke had grown measurably as a man, a duelist, and a Force-user, his fight with Vader had almost nothing to do with OMG SWISH FWEEEEW BZZZZ.
So no. Fuck that. Thank all the gods above and below that Abrams and his people didn't buy into that stupid bullshit.
--
Also it's apparently canon that Kylo Ren's saber has the crossguard to vent excess energy because the focus crystal he used was flawed and would blow up in his hands if it was just the standard blade. So even the stupid gimmicky saber at least reflects its owner instead of being LOL SO TACTICOOL and nothing else.
Not saying that the fights in Episode 1 were great as storytelling devices. I won't disagree with an argument on that point. Although I linked that fight scene from the Clone Wars mini-series as back-up for my opinion that you can have both ways.
My point is that if we're going to nitpick the theory behind design decisions such as a lightsaber crossguard on the basis of practicality, that the discussion is then open to other more glaring issues, and the fighting styles portrayed would top my list. They just don't appear practical, and it strains my ability to see the characters involved as being pivotal to the fate of the galaxy, when they fail to use a basic tool in a way that makes sense. And yes, I understand that they're very dangerous and would require extreme training to learn to use at a high level, but it would still appear common sense not to try and whack someone with huge forceful arm movements when it's universally understood that any contact at all from one of these things can easily end a fight.
Also, the original trilogy had good excuses for the fights being slower. Vader was basically old and crippled. He could still hold his own due to being a hardcore veteran warrior with incredible force power. And his opponents, Luke and Obi-Wan (even older), never had any intention to actually try and kill him whenever they fought. Their fights literally were emotional clashes more than actual combats.
Finn, Rey, and Kylo?... can't find so much in the way of excuses for these guys to fight the way they did. As a storytelling device, yeah, it was great. But as a practical matter, Rey taking like a full 1.5 seconds to draw her elbows back all the way before making a ridiculously forecasted fully-extended thrust without any footwork and landing it against a guy we're supposed to believe has actual training with a lightsaber is far more problematic than whether a crossguard on a lightsaber makes good design sense.
Reposting because it's been conveniently ignored.
I don't know, looking at it from that perspective, actually, since a light saber is all 'edge' and an effectively 'infinitely sharp' one at that, you can hold it any way you want.
On that note, the functionality of a crossguard is minor compared to the way lightsaber fighting styles are portrayed through all the movies in general. All these wide sweeping motions and dramatic clashing of blades. But you're not going to sunder a lightsaber, and brute forcing your way through someone's defenses with a weapon that has no mass is rather silly. Lightsaber fighting should be full of deception and quick wrist motions. You don't need power behind your strikes. You just need to make contact.
The one thing that Episode 1 did better than most movies is the lightsaber battles struck the best balance so far on realistic and entertaining lightsaber combat. It still had the flashy dance-like quality that audiences expect, and is satisfying to watch. But I also think it made much more effort at the same time to portray a lightest-touch approach. They're much more likely to sweep with their wrists instead of their entire arms to dispatch a droid than in any other Star Wars film, and saber contact in the fights with Darth Maul look more about very rapid strikes and parries while trying to find a weakness and make contact, instead of forceful clashing. Maul seemed like he took advantage of his weapon to more quickly strike from different angles, and keep his opponent on the defensive - not the flashy gimmick I've seen some people claim.
I actually wrote a paper on this. It is my belief that the duel between Darth Maul and Qui-Gonn/Kenobi represents the peak of the Jedi, the Sith, and the Force. It's the metaphorical and literal passing of the ages. It's the best of Jedi and Sith in terms of technique (that can be visually obtained from the movies in any case) and though there are both force-users with more finesse (Count Dooku) or with more strength (Darth Vader) later on, none really match the intensity and weight of the Episode I duel. (I also really enjoy Episode I, all Jar-Jars aside.)
I don't know, looking at it from that perspective, actually, since a light saber is all 'edge' and an effectively 'infinitely sharp' one at that, you can hold it any way you want.
I mean, the design of it would still be a bitch for the amount of gain you would actually get, and just having an electro thing as the cross guard would make more sense, and being able to turn it on and off mid battle would probably be the best way to go about it, but whatever.
There is a noted style of lightsaber combat which involves temporarily switching the blade off to pass through an opponent's defense.
You know, I take back everything I ever said about the stupidity of Kylo Ren's lightsaber design. It makes a hell of a lot of sense in the context of old-style SW saber-shoving; an opponent who tried to lop off one of the crossguards from a saber lock would die even if they managed to take some fingers with them, and in the meantime it lets him play games like he did poking Finn's shoulder.
But the impairment of motion the crossguard adds evens that advantage out, it is nearly literally comparing a rapier and a longsword.
Another thing. It's been described multiple times--my favorite in KOTOR II--about how incredibly nimble force-users' fine motor skills are. What point is there in comparing any blade, when a Jedi or a Sith can wield a Longsword to the same effect as a Rapier and vice versa? Force Users are so incredibly fast and, if trained, so well able to predict an opponent's next move that it's almost irrelevant.
Vader wasn't really old or crippled, in fact, in direction contention with you argument he is actually one of the best saber-users in the galaxy. He lost a considerable amount of force power after losing his remaining limbs and instead rededicated himself to adapting to a new style.
I start with that because the most intense saber-use we see is in the duels. No particularly good saber-user vs. non-saber-user fights are really depicted all that well in the movies while in the lore there are many elite units and individuals capable of fighting Jedi or Sith to a standstill. Most notably, the Mandalorians.
The most glaring fault I see is in Finn's fighting style. It's amateur, when he is a trained professional. TR-8R, Mr. Whappity is a huge goofball too. For Rey it makes a little more sense, she's not exactly trained--and while she's proficient in her homebrewed self-defense style, how would you feel fighting a master of a weapon you have never wielded, let alone heard of before with his own weapon? Probably rather scared and jumpy. Also, people are fucking wounded, hurt, mad, and scared. It's easy to get disoriented and sloppy in a fight. (Source: Fencing.) Go watch The Duellists, which is arguably one of the most accurate representations of sword combat ever filmed. When you're exhausted you just can't move fast.
As far as the Episode I duel in the context of storytelling, I would say that it is just as well done as any in the original trilogy. The difference being it's meaning is mostly metaphorical about events we don't really get to see in entirety, whereas the originals were very literal and character-driven. I enjoy the Episode I duel more because it says a lot more about Star Wars as a whole than any of the other duels do.
+2 cents
Peace out.
Author
Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread (spoilers, obviously) (Read 53856 times)