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[TD1]

Mate, we all know that young people who support Brexit are a myth.

This is obviously fake news.

[Il Palazzo]

Ah, yes, the 13 year old children. A cohort well known for strong independent thought and reasoned political stances.

[TD1]

.... I don't think anyone said that 13 year old children make well informed political choices. Though the Scots come pretty darn close with the 16-year-old voting age.

[Il Palazzo]

If that wasn't clear, I was driving at how 13 year olds are not as much young people supporting anything, as they are their parent's children tagging along with whatever activism the old geezers are into.

But then again, I also think most 20-somethings know shit all about politics, and the idea of voting age is arbitrary and stupid.

(note: I've acquired this opinion the day after I turned 30)

[Loud Whispers]

Ah, yes, the 13 year old children. A cohort well known for strong independent thought and reasoned political stances.

Certainly strong independent thought, my God have you tried controlling any group of 13 year olds

[Il Palazzo]

I have, as a matter of fact. I taught herded school kids that age for a short while, before I came to my senses. I've come to the realisation that while there are many strong and independent things going on in their heads and elsewhere, thought is not among them.

[TD1]

I'm with Palazzo on this one. Thirteen year olds can certainly have independent thoughts, but in the broad strokes they're heavily influenced by family (even close friends).

[Dorsidwarf]

Epic 13-yo brain be like "hey guys imma punch this cop for no reason" 100/100

[hector13]

Someone I used to hang around with in school decided the best use for a small sign warning drivers of construction was to throw it across the road like a frisbee.

The police in the car they threw it in front of were not amused.

[Loud Whispers]

I have, as a matter of fact. I taught herded school kids that age for a short while, before I came to my senses. I've come to the realisation that while there are many strong and independent things going on in their heads and elsewhere, thought is not among them.

I couldn't disagree more tbh, especially when kids start reaching the apex of their rebellious streak and form their sense of personal identity around this age, usually coinciding with a rebellion against personal authority figures. Whether bright or dim as bricks, if they're not thinking for themselves by 13 they're not ever

[Loud Whispers]

At 13? Rebellious streak apexes at, like, 16 or 17.

At that point they're leaving the house for work & education though, though I suppose it'll vary by geography and culture

[Il Palazzo]

I couldn't disagree more tbh, especially when kids start reaching the apex of their rebellious streak and form their sense of personal identity around this age, usually coinciding with a rebellion against personal authority figures. Whether bright or dim as bricks, if they're not thinking for themselves by 13 they're not ever

They're getting rebellious, but their critical thinking ability is by and large still a flatline. Let alone knowledge and experience to draw on.
If you think being contrarian is thinking for oneself, then... I don't know what happens then. Persistent disagreement perhaps?

[Loud Whispers]

They're getting rebellious, but their critical thinking ability is by and large still a flatline. Let alone knowledge and experience to draw on.
If you think being contrarian is thinking for oneself, then... I don't know what happens then. Persistent disagreement perhaps?

Knowing things, having lived things, agreeing or disagreeing are all not the same as having strong independent thought, whilst critical thinking could be entirely absent in a teenager still endowed with strong independent thought. It would be as easily demonstrated as any child possessing their own ideas, ambitions, notions and so forth, that it can diverge from their personal authority figures is not independent thought, merely a sign that the source of their action is themselves - not a reaction to external agents.

[Il Palazzo]

I completely agree that people are not the Borg.

[scriver]

I dunno, if it is any people that are the Borg it is 13 year olds. They're basically a friend hivemind. Do my friends think this? Then I think it too.