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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Guy refused a legal order by 3 police officers. Guy gets beat down. Nothing surprising. I hope he spends a night in jail for public disturbance.

Bow a little deeper, I don't think you've quite GOT ON THE GROUND enough to tickle every cop in America's compliance fetish.

Honestly. If this is the kind of society we're going to have, where the letter of the law is given preference above all else and a reflexive need for controlling people is lauded, we're all fucked. There is some serious sickness in the way we all treat each other if anybody can look at this incident and think "gg, should'a complied, not sure what you expected".

There becomes a necessity for people to follow procedure and authority when you start cramming hundreds into a small aluminum tube and shoot them into the air. To quote Firefly: "You ever see cattle stampede when they got no place to run? It’s kinda like a meat grinder." People MUST follow procedure and authority in these situations. There is no argument to be made otherwise.

This is ridiculous hyperbole. There is no stampede. The only danger was that presented was by the police smashing a guy's face into an armrest for no goddamn reason.

As opposed to, you know, not starting the conflict. Maybe do like airlines usually do and not kick people who have already boarded off planes, or if you absolutely hate to not let some random manager interrupt the normal procedure of bribing someone off. As opposed to calling up some thugs to give someone a concussion.

[Max™]

I am at a loss regarding Spicer, are you defending Hitler? Is this some sort of reverse-triple-mangan-Godwin shit?

DOES SEAN SPICER NOT KNOW WHO HITLER WAS?

[Starver]

While both technically "chemical" weapons. It's very unfair to say someone using tear gas is at ALL on the same scale as someone using sarin.

I'm starting to read "tear gas" as "rip gas".
(Visualisation of where my brain heading towards.)

[Shazbot]

Someone has to get off the plane, United owns the plane, every ticket sold has a contractual agreement that your seat can be re-prioritized. If everyone who bought a ticket showed up to the plane, they wouldn't over-book. But they know 5 or 10% won't show up at the gate, and the other 90-95% doesn't want to pay 5-10% more for their ticket. If United has to get a pilot to another airport in time for his flight, that's what they have to do. Will you pay 5-10% more or make everyone at the other airport not have a pilot to fly their plane?

I'm also hearing there's more to it. http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/real-reason-man-dragged-off-united-flight-stop-happening/

Life is making the least-bad decision and then you die.

Rex Tillerson is meeting with Putin after the Russians double back on passing him off to his Russian equivalent, Tsar Plowerski.

[nenjin]

Like I said. "Fuck the consumer."

[Frumple]

I am at a loss regarding Spicer, are you defending Hitler? Is this some sort of reverse-triple-mangan-Godwin shit?

DOES SEAN SPICER NOT KNOW WHO HITLER WAS?

He definitely forgot what gas chambers were, if nothing else.

Kinda' just looks like him or whoever's writing his script just doesn't care what he says. Maybe they rigged up some kind of chatbot and hooked it up to a printer. Sad thing is I can't quite pin down whether that would end up being more or less consistent and/or coherent.

[Shazbot]

Strictly speaking you can't call gas chambers chemical weapons or else California is walking for a Tomahawking.

[Starver]

He ain't wrong. Chemical weapons weren't used against military forces in WW2, despite pretty much everyone having the capability.

One version of events is that when the BEF evacuated from Dunkirk, right near the start, amongst the various other supplies they left behind in their inauspicious (but, arguably, glorious) retreat was pretty much every chemical shell the force had (having expected something similar to WW1 happening again).

It is said that the discovery of these by the advancing Germans was interpreted as basically "if they've so casually discarded these stocks, they must have many times more still deployable..."  Germany had been somewhat more compliant than the other powers in not stockpiling their own gases (prior to the development of their more (im)famous nerve agents), and so did not feel like getting into a pissing contest with anybody they suspected to be so capable of retaliation.  They even assumed that the Allies had developed at least as potent a weapon as they recently had, imagining their lack of intelligence on that matter was just down to good secrecy on the various opposing development teams' parts...

(Adolph, having been a gas survivor in WW1, also kept the ultimate authority for their use mostly in his own hands, perhaps for that particupar personal reason.)

Meanwhile, the British defence against invasion would have involved 'mustarding' our own beaches, with urgently rebuilt stockpiles, as well as against German cities if at any point the Germans used 'their' stocks, and similar plans to (re)retaliate against cities if there had been gassings of our D-Day forces by the Germans.  A precursernof M.A.D., that may never have come to pass only because all sides' imaginations actually outpaced the capabilities and intentions of the others, and yet no false positives set that particular stack of Jenga bricks to tumbling down.


Not that WW2 was Chemical-free, especially over in the Sino-Japanese theatre and in clearing out Russians from caves after a comprehensive defeat on the ground near Sevastopol, and there were accidents (including stocks compromised by enemy action) of various kinds.


Although better historians then me may have more definite information than that which I received mostly as hearsay.

[Lord Shonus]

He ain't wrong. Chemical weapons weren't used against military forces in WW2, despite pretty much everyone having the capability.

They even assumed that the Allies had developed at least as potent a weapon as they recently had, imagining their lack of intelligence on that matter was just down to good secrecy on the various opposing development teams' parts...

More precisely, interwar chemical research among the Allied countries had been starting to go down the same path that the Germans had taken to nerve gas before abruptly stopping. The Germans assumed that was a security clampdown, but in reality it was "we don't have time to work on this, we need to start making guns and drums and drums and guns".

[Frumple]

In any case, the strike has at least given us a fun little thing for anyone who wants to make the claim that inclination towards partisanship is roughly equal between the party bases, at the absolute least in regards to certain military matters. Apparently dem support for syrian intervention basically hasn't moved between 2013 and 2017, despite the syrian situation being largely identical and the political situation stateside being rather different. Meanwhile, GOP support has... shifted. Just a bit.

[Shazbot]

The German Nebelwerfer rocket system was largely for delivering chemical agents, and the Heer had a capable chemical corps.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Nebelwerfer ("Smoke Mortar"[1]) was a World War II German series of weapons. They were initially developed by and assigned to the Wehrmacht's so-called "smoke troops" (Nebeltruppen). This weapon was given its name as a disinformation strategy designed to fool observers from the League of Nations, who were observing any possible infraction of the Treaty of Versailles, into thinking that it was merely a device for creating a smoke screen.[citation needed] They were primarily intended to deliver poison gas and smoke shells[citation needed], although a high-explosive shell was developed for the Nebelwerfer from the beginning. Initially, two different mortars were fielded before they were replaced by a variety of rocket launchers ranging in size from 15 to 32 centimetres (5.9 to 12.6 in). The thin walls of the rockets had the great advantage of allowing much larger quantities of gases, fluids or high-explosives to be delivered than artillery or even mortar shells of the same weight. With the exception of the Balkans Campaign, Nebelwerfer were used in every campaign of the German Army during World War II. A version of the 21 cm calibre system was even adapted for air-to-air use against Allied bombers.  -- Le Wiki

The United States very-damn-near used phosgene (correction) gas, which had been stockpiled for use in the invasion of mainland Japan. So Japan dodged that bullet.

[Lord Shonus]

The United States very-damn-near used nerve gas, which had been stockpiled for use in the invasion of mainland Japan. So Japan dodged that bullet.

Since the US didn't develop nerve gas until after the war was over, this sounds unlikely. Mustard gas and Lewisite were the the main gasses in the American chemical arsenal, and on at least one occasion were accidentally released in Italy after the transport carrying them was bombed.


As for the first part, a lot of the larger weapons on both sides were technically designated for chemical use, but were only used for high explosives - the American 107mm mortar is a good example.

[Folly]

Even Hitler did not use chemical weapons.

/facepalm

He ain't wrong. Chemical weapons weren't used against military forces in WW2, despite pretty much everyone having the capability.

Hitler did not become infamous for his methods against military forces. Nor is Assad currently taking heat for his use of chemical weapons against militant women and children.

[Shazbot]

In any case, the strike has at least given us a fun little thing for anyone who wants to make the claim that inclination towards partisanship is roughly equal between the party bases, at the absolute least in regards to certain military matters. Apparently dem support for syrian intervention basically hasn't moved between 2013 and 2017, despite the syrian situation being largely identical and the political situation stateside being rather different. Meanwhile, GOP support has... shifted. Just a bit.

No, the situation has changed in Syria. ISIS, Syria Assad the Kurds have settled out into geographic regions. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22798391

Russia has publicly aligned themselves with Assad. Assad, Obama and Putin formed an agreement to account for and destroy Assad's chemical weapons with Russia being the guarantor, it was declared that this was complete by both administrations, and it is now apparent that Russia has failed to complete its end of the bargain. It is also being revealed through a number of former Obama staffers that they knew Assad was retaining chemical weapons but were not confronting the Russians over this. Obama and Kerry instead lied to the American people.

After Libya was torn apart by Hillary, Obama's international reputation was shot, he drew a red line, he balked when Assad violated that red line, punted to Congress, Congress punted back, he punted to Russia, Russia smiled that Putin smile and now they've just burrowed in like ticks into Syria which has not gotten rid of its gas weapons.

Trump signals that Assad can pretty well stay in power, shortly thereafter he uses chemical weapons on his own people.

This is a very different situation than what Obama was in. We now have a new administration that can either demonstrate its going to be just like Obama and punt the matter around before lying, or thoroughly signal that Trump's foreign policy is not Obama's foreign policy.

We got the latter, and while many in Trump's base are boiling over it, Xi returned from his visit with Trump, a visit concurrent with authorization to fly cruise missiles from US ships past Russian-made and advised air defense systems and knock out a high value target, to turn back North Korean coal shipments and move 150,000 PLA "humanitarian relief" troops on North Korea's border while America sends a carrier group. Xi also lifted the beef import ban and American coal mines and beef producers are now looking to the East as an opening export market.

Which is an odd combination of signals.

This is far, far different from the pre-announced pinprick cruise missile strike Obama was trying to get Congressional authorization for. Trump isn't crazy. Trump is operating inside the world's OODA loop.

[Max™]

So what if we drop a school on a Syrian base and Assad hits the child sub-munitions with Sarin? Who is the bigger monster here, Assad, Hitler, or Spicer who would briefly get to be correct when he pointed out Hitler never dropped schools on anyone?