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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Moskurg] {COMPLETED}  (Read 190041 times)

Mardent23

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #690 on: April 20, 2017, 10:58:56 am »

Fair point, but would  armor development be considered a design?
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #691 on: April 20, 2017, 11:02:04 am »

Designs, by default, have a better chance of success than revisions.  Complexity of a design/revision is a factor in the success chance.

For example, your attempt to rework antimagic into a wand was a revision.  You rolled a 5, and it was unsuccessful.

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #692 on: April 20, 2017, 04:41:28 pm »

Could I get you guys to tally your votes as you cast them, please?  Something like

Quote
Staff of Tubikh Rrahim: [3] Voter1, Voter2, Voter3
Better Armor: [1] Voter4
Bodkin Arrows: [2] Voter5, Voter6

Kashyyk

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #693 on: April 20, 2017, 04:48:24 pm »

Quote from: Vote Tally
Staff of Tubikh Rrahim [2]: Kashyyk, NUKE9.13
Steel Lamellar [1]: Mardent23
Bodkin Arrows [1]: Devastator

I think people are voting like this at the moment.
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Detoxicated

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #694 on: April 20, 2017, 06:32:23 pm »

I vote for better armor or big shields.
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S34N1C

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #695 on: April 20, 2017, 06:35:06 pm »

I voted for Bodkin Arrows

However, in the interests of breaking the three way tie, I'll vote for the Staff
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 07:31:40 pm by S34N1C »
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As always, life is brief and transient, your posting history lasts forever, so always prioritise forum games.

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ATHATH

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #696 on: April 20, 2017, 08:55:19 pm »

Spend the design on the staff and the revision on the arrows.
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Seriously, ATHATH, we need to have an intervention about your death mug problem.
Quote
*slow clap* Well ATHATH congratulations. You managed to give the MC a mental breakdown before we even finished the first arc.
I didn't even read it first, I just saw it was ATHATH and noped it. Now that I read it x3 to noping

ATHATH

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #697 on: April 20, 2017, 08:56:58 pm »

This thread is starting to sound a lot like Arstotzka's with all the salt and it's kinda bumming me out.
Wait, Arstotska's thread is like that all the time? Wow, evicted- you really ARE a saint.
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Seriously, ATHATH, we need to have an intervention about your death mug problem.
Quote
*slow clap* Well ATHATH congratulations. You managed to give the MC a mental breakdown before we even finished the first arc.
I didn't even read it first, I just saw it was ATHATH and noped it. Now that I read it x3 to noping

Devastator

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #698 on: April 20, 2017, 10:16:25 pm »

Change vote to the Lamellar Armor.

It'll make sense better with arrow revisions, and could produce a weapon and protection in the same turn.
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Devastator

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #699 on: April 20, 2017, 10:30:27 pm »

I believe anti-magic is a wunderwaffen that'll actually work. Making it mobile with a staff allows us to use it on the offensive, so we'll be as effective as we on the defence. This then allows us to convert it into something we can launch. Imagine planting one of these wands in the side of an enemy ship, into their cold tower or amongst a group of fireball wizards. They'll suddenly be unable to cast. If we can make it selective we can cast whilst they can't. This is a whole new branch of magic that is going to be (and already is) super useful, and super powerful.

I can appreciate it if you think there's some sunk cost fallacy happening here, but I believe it's worth it.

However, your suggestions of bodkins and big shields are definitely deserving of attention. I just feel they can be completed with a revision instead of a design.

There's a bunch of reasons I'm not voting for staff antimagic..  firstly, I think we've got the big prize already.  We rolled very well on the production of the antimagic spell, (6,4,5), and if we roll less well, say something with a couple threes, we'll get nothing out of it.  If we roll great, good, or okay on armor or something, we'll get something out of it.

So not really the sunk cost fallacy, but more that we've hit the big prize and further work will be going for the scraps.

Secondly, I don't think antimagic is some kind of superweapon.  If we launch a staff at a ship, one of their sailors will just walk over, pick up the hunk of wood, and drop it overboard, or they'll keep a copy for themselves.  If you mean zap the spell a long distance with a staff, it still wouldn't do much.  We've rolled sixes for effectiveness twice, and the enemy can still fling fireballs all they want.  Their boats aren't magic, so they wouldn't sink or anything.  And we don't know how to zap spells like that, so that's two design changes to do that, and likely a revision for naval use.

Thirdly, I think a lot of the effectiveness in antimagic was in the suprise.  If their heavy cavalry didn't have all-crystal weapons, we would have gotten pounded flat and lost that battle, and likely territory with it as well.  Next time, even if we do hit portable antimagic, their heavy cavalry will still be capable of stomping us flat.

Fourthly, antimagic is very easy to bypass or trump.  Similar to the last one, a bolt of antimagic does nothing to a longbowman, or a man in plate armor with a sword, or a cavalryman with a steel spear.  Or a boat.  It was helpful for the shock value and for taking away their fancy weapons, but when you take away the magic, we are left with lightly armed men wearing cloth against guys in full plate with broadswords.  That isn't a good matchup.

Fiftly, we had antimagic last turn, but we did not win.  We barely managed a draw, and we were fighting defensively with the suprise and shock from it being used for the first time.  If we had won, there would be a stronger case for it being a superweapon, but we did not.



tl;dr:  If we don't beat a 6,4,5 on the roll, we get nothing from the new design.  If we roll okay on armor, we get something useful.  If the enemy designs something like steel lances or ordinary flaming arrows, we lose, even if we roll straight sixes on antimagic staves.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:36:59 pm by Devastator »
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #700 on: April 20, 2017, 11:11:37 pm »

Quote
Staff of Tubikh Rrahim [4]: Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, Athath, S34N1C
Steel Lamellar [3]: Mardent23, Devastator, Detox
Bodkin Arrows []:

Okay, well, the point of this little table was that you quote it when you vote and add your vote to it, but there's few enough here at the moment it's not a big deal.

Staff it is.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:25:06 pm by evictedSaint »
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Happerry

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #701 on: April 20, 2017, 11:14:59 pm »

Happyerry is happy to add a +1 to whatever the voting bloc does, should they need it, every single turn.
Oy, I already said what I was going to vote for this turn, and now I'm going to vote for it, and it isn't anything that has a voting bloc on it.

Make a Mind Blast spell by taking our teletalk beacons and our detect thoughts spells, taking what used to be wrong with them, and designing a version that does that stuff to the target instead of the caster.

(And I think this is the current voting set?)

Quote
Staff of Tubikh Rrahim [2]: Kashyyk, NUKE9.13
Steel Lamellar [2]: Mardent23, Devastator
Bodkin Arrows []:
I vote for better armor or big shields [1]: Detoxicated
Spend the design on the staff and the revision on the arrows [1]: ATHATH
Make a Mind Blast spell [1]: Happerry

Anyway, like I said earlier, I'm happy with the anti-magic spell as is. I wouldn't mind maybe revising it next turn, but I want to try going for some low hanging fruits instead of big complicated things the next few turns, like the mind blast spell i just voted for or upgrading Cyclone Shield into actually being a longbow counter we can use on our troops, instead of just making our officers a bit tougher, or taking Lucky Strike and making a Critical Fumble curse by reversing it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:16:40 pm by Happerry »
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #702 on: April 20, 2017, 11:41:44 pm »

Design: Staff of Tubikh Rrahim [5, 4, 6]

Our attempt to put the spell Tubikh Rrahim into wand form didn't go well last year, but we've learned a lot from the attempt.  Most of the groundwork has already been laid, so putting the spell into a staff goes remarkably well! 

The staff is a two-meter long length carved from the tusk of a mighty elephant.  This isn't exactly a common material, but the bazaars outside of the palace sell it readily.  By the time the staff is completed it's a work of art, truly the pinnacle of our magical prowess thusfar.  Spellwork, prayers, and holy circles crawl up the sides of the staff, and those who stare at the carvings for too long swear they can see them moving around and whisper divine secrets.  This is likely just propaganda from the mages who wield the staffs, but our men regard them with awe and respect nonetheless.

The area of effect is still limited to the size of a skirmish and still prevents any magic from being cast within - including the magic of our own mages.  While they do let us use the spell on the offensive, the staves also make the users obvious to the enemy, making them targets.  The user still must focus on the spell while casting - it's possible to multitask minor things like riding a horse, but don't expect the users to fight while casting.  Finally, it still takes a day of prayer before the user can cast again, and doesn't prevent fireballs from being cast outside of the antimagic field - but if the user can get close enough then the enemy mages can't cast anyways.  Expensive.

S34N1C

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #703 on: April 20, 2017, 11:44:40 pm »

Perfect

Next up: either armor or arrows. Not gonna vote yet
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As always, life is brief and transient, your posting history lasts forever, so always prioritise forum games.

Glory to United Forenia!

ATHATH

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Re: Wands Race - [Moskurg]
« Reply #704 on: April 20, 2017, 11:48:09 pm »

Revise those arrows.
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Seriously, ATHATH, we need to have an intervention about your death mug problem.
Quote
*slow clap* Well ATHATH congratulations. You managed to give the MC a mental breakdown before we even finished the first arc.
I didn't even read it first, I just saw it was ATHATH and noped it. Now that I read it x3 to noping
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