Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 147 148 [149] 150 151 ... 301

Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 377083 times)

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2220 on: May 10, 2017, 06:52:01 pm »

strange celestial iron
An extensive analysis of its structure revealed that it contained vast amounst of inherently unstable magic. We split it into two parts, forced all the stable material out of it using conured material to displace it, then mounted it into a cannon shell with the two components separated by a short-lived crystal wafer and backed by a number of antimagic bombs triggered to detonate when a magical storage crystal at the tip shatters, releasing all its magic. The force of the impact combined with the force of the dtonating antimagic bombs will force the two lumps of unstable material together causing the unstable material to overload and undergo a process of rapid decay. Unfortunately, all the workers involved in examining and handling the material have died from a mysterious contamination of their auras. This appears to be only minimally contagious as a weaker contamination produces a much weaker contamination effect. We suspect that this aura contamination will be distriuted over the target area and result in the region being unable to be resettled or exploited without protective enchantments. We call this the National Unification by Killing Effect.
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Roboson

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2221 on: May 10, 2017, 07:45:21 pm »

What was our revision for this turn again? As far as I can tell, it hasn't changed in the last few pages of discussion. Is that correct?

Never mind, I just missed it.
Logged

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2222 on: May 10, 2017, 07:47:59 pm »

We already did the revision and are waiting for the combat phase now. The revision was to cheapen the HA1 and also the HC1-E as a bonus action thanks to our mountain metals.
We got a 2 and didn't successfully cheapen the HA1, but we did cheapen the HC1-E and therefore made the original HC1 obsolete. There were some minor improvements in accuracy and reliability for both the HA1 and HC1-E, however.

It was Barrel Boring.
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2223 on: May 10, 2017, 09:01:51 pm »

I know it's way late, but on the wraiths discussion, I proposed it well over a decade ago IIRC, and received a great deal of flak for it. We're definitely not going to do wraiths.  :'(

Edit: Actually its two decades as of this year. Happy anniversary wraiths.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 09:09:34 pm by Roboson »
Logged

evictedSaint

  • Bay Watcher
  • if (ANNOYED_W_FANS==true) { KILL_CHAR(rand()); }
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2224 on: May 11, 2017, 02:30:45 pm »

Combat for 932

Our guards stand on the edge of our camps at night, scanning the horizon, alert, ready, waiting for the inevitable Moskurg raiders to come charging through.  Our apprentices cast crystal caltrops, just knowing it’s a fruitless countermeasure.  It hasn’t stopped them for years, but it’s a necessary gesture – it forces them to bring their anti-magic to bear.  A lucky archer might be able to snipe the staff-wielding mage and prevent the raid altogether, but that’s a slim chance all on its own.  Meanwhile, our men sleep lightly in their tents further into camp, wearily wondering if tonight will be the night they can get a full nights sleep.  Our Theatre Commander stays up late and pours over maps and strategies and troop logistics in a desperate attempt to find some way to break the Moskurg lines and regain a foothold in the jungle.
 
In the dead of night, a pair of grenades explode in the middle of camp.
 
Chaos erupts as fire begins popping up at random in the camp, burning tents and equipment to ash and sending flaming soldiers stumbling for some semblance of protection.  We are caught entirely unaware, and as soon as it starts the attack stops.  This happens again, and again, until our camps are massive, sprawling things spaced out as far as we can feasibly make them.
 
Our own attacks are successful, but nowhere near as devastating.  Our snipers can kill a dozen men at a time with no casualties, and our heavy calvary can do more damage but at the cost of being cut down.  Our mages can’t bring their fire to bear due to their anti-magic, and without Moskurg being left shivering in the cold we can’t even rely on the elements to help.
 
Moskurg has a massive skirmish advantage.
 
Our new artillery shows its strength on the battlefield.  Moskurg is camped on the edge of the jungle, intent on holding their line.  Nothing can compare to the reach of the HA1, and we can shell them with impunity from long range.  The effect of the artillery is unclear; we’re simply shelling locations where Moskurg might be.  Barrages must stop periodically due to a lack of ammunition, but in the taiga we are rarely without water.  The swampy lands that border the jungle provide the water we need, and further north into the tundra we will have plenty of snow we could easily melt into water.  Still, despite these drawbacks the shelling must be having some effect.  We can see something rising from Moskurg lines – a balloon, perhaps?  Soon after Moskurg will roll forward with their ballistas and the shelling begins in earnest.
 
Their ballistas are still uncannily accurate, but we now have HC1-E’s as our main artillery force.  The small cannons aren’t as accurate and they don’t have fire-shells like Moskurg, but they fire much more quickly.  Plus, we still have our HA1’s, which have a much larger caliber.  We don’t have time to disassemble the HA1’s and reassemble them further back, so they’re stuck at Extreme Range with the rest of the artillery.  Their large size makes them an immediate target and they are destroyed one-by-one, but they do manage to take a couple ballistas with them.
 
The prior shelling and the larger, accurate HA1’s tip things in our favor, even though the HC1’s are evenly matched with the ballistas.  Curiously, there are fewer ballistas than usual, but this only emboldens our men.  We make some progress pushing them back…until their mages fly overhead.  It’s a new Moskurg trick, flying; their mages slowly drift over our lines, just barely within reach of our longbows.  Once their fire grenades start falling from above the nature of their nightly attacks becomes clear.  The bombing is terribly effective.  Our archers begin firing upwards with some minor success, managing to pick off a wizard, but the arrows that miss begin falling back down into our own troop lines.  Right away they put up their disgusting shields of wind, which is effective at deflecting the stray, spent arrow that would otherwise kill.  It is at this point our Mage-Hunters start shooting.
 
Mage-Hunters, with their superior bow skills and anti-magic bomb arrows, are effective at stopping the Moskurg threat.  The explosive nature of the arrow means they don’t even have to have a direct hit; the shrapnel is effective at sending them tumbling from the skies.  From the wizards who come down we find that they seem to be riding…rolled up carpets?  It’s a cheap Moskurg trick, and their floor-ware doesn’t save them from out bomb arrows.  We even come close to knocking out al-Mutriqa, sailing by with his multi-colored cloak and black phantasm troops, but pulls back in time.  We manage to repel to Moskurg air forces, but by this point our lines are in complete disarray.  Moskurg charges across the gap between our lines and does a solid job of mopping things up, and we are forced to retreat further into our homelands.  Moskurg has gained a section of Taiga.
 
Our Theatre Commander gravely informs us that Moskurg has gained a foothold in our homelands.  They will be hampered by our fleet and the cold if they attempt to push further, but for the moment they’ve pressed beyond the jungle.  He notes that our bomb arrows were particularly effective at repulsing the enemy, but during night raids it’s difficult to spy Moskurg wizards above.  This has a huge detriment to our war effort.  The HA1 is also effective, but our inability to spot where our shells are landing is hurting us.  In a similar vein, the difficulty of keeping them supplied when they go through 4 shells per minute keeps our barrages from being constant.  He discounts the flying trick as just that: a trick.  They move slow, they fly relatively low, and now that we know to watch out for them our Mage-Hunters will be able to keep them away.  Flight will have absolutely no role in warfare beyond this one, single surprise trick.
 
He does note that the HC1-E is doing its job quite nicely, and is able to stand up to their main ballista force all on its own.  On a brighter note, he mentions that small growths of plants have begun popping up in the jungle now that it is no longer snowing, suggesting that the environmental devastation both sides has visited upon it will not be permanent.
 
Moskurg maintains their hold on the jungle and may now exploit what wood remains for resources.
 
Moskurg has gained a section of taiga!

 
 
We assault the desert from the mountains.
 
Our Towers of Frost make the descent into the badlands that separate the mountains from the desert bearable.  The rocky, sandy soil is poor for trenchbuilding and we have a minor height advantage coming from the mountains, so they have a difficult time defending.  Our HA1 does a great deal of work, firing as often as the limited ammo supply will allow.  Battles are brief, intense, and bloody.  Without tree cover their flying wizards are easier to spot during raids, but it’s difficult to take advantage of seeing them coming.  Firing upwards at night is a tricky task, and though they take more casualties during the skirmishes here than they did in the jungle, they still manage to maintain a firm lead with regards to skirmishing.
 
Our new artillery is still plagued by limited supplies and the difficulty of knowing where we’re hitting, so at Beyond LOS range they’re not as effective as they could be.  Our most valuable asset is our HC1-E’s, which excel in the open terrain, especially at Long or Medium range due to shots skipping across the smooth sandy ground.  Our heavy calvary and men are uncomfortable in the heat despite the assistance of the Towers of Frost, but even worse is the wind blowing sand in our face.  It hinders visibility and finds its way into every nook and cranny.  Even worse, the warm weather means storms are possible again, and their lightning strikes tend to favor the large metal HA1’s.  The constant rain means we at least have the water to feed our HA1’s, so again the limiting factor becomes spotting and ammo supply.  Without the lightning it might have been a close battle, but we are sadly forced back.
 
Our Theatre Commander desperately wants to use the HA1’s more, but we don’t even know if we’re hitting at BLOS range.  Their air troops do a decent job at harassing our men, although it’s primarily only at night.  The Mage-Hunters do a good job at keeping them at bay during the day, but they are still managing to get through at times and they can’t be everywhere.  If it weren’t for our bomb arrows they would have complete control of the skies.
 
Arstotzka fails to gain ground in the desert.
 
Things go differently in the plains.
 
Our HA1 doesn’t need to see where it’s hitting here.  We already know where their emplacements and trenchlines are.  They fire as soon as they’re fed ammo, and the sudden increase in range forces Moskurg to creep their lines backwards.  Advancement is slow, but successful.  Much like in the desert, the constant rain and light snow lets them occasionally bring their lightning to bear, randomly striking where it may.  The HA1’s are commonly struck, requiring repairs often.  Again, the lack of tree cover means their air forces are less effective during skirmishes and during assaults and we shoot a fair number of them down, but it’s an effective tactic.  Clearly these mages used to be powering their ballistas, which is why Moskurg has been fielding fewer this year.
 
Our men are still growing sick due to sitting in trenches, but the increased distance between the trenches means they no longer have to be worried about being randomly struck by a lucky artillery shot.  Now all they have to worry about are carpet-riding zealots dropping grenades into the trenches.  The HA1 isn’t enough to win the day all on its own, but it is definitely more of an advantage here and we are able to push Moskurg onto the back foot.  Another year of this and we’ll be able to take another section of plains.
 
Our Theatre Commander is worried about the carpet-riders.  He, unlike the Theatre Commander in the jungle, fears that this represents another change in combat doctrine – much like when they first introduced their ballistas.  He urges our design team to develop a counter as quickly as possible and develop our own air force, lest we lag behind in this ever-changing war.
 
Neither side gains ground in the plains.
 
Battles in the sea benefit greatly from the HC1-E.  The decrease in cost means our ships can now all afford to be outfitted with the superior cannon.  A single ship with an HC1-E is a match for a Moskurg ship equipped with a ballista, although they both tend to sink from damage sustained.  The SPB is faster than Moskurgs ships and can dictate when and where engagements happen, and are able to sink several Moskurg ships for each one lost.  This alone would let us further our hold on the seas, were it not for Moskurgs air forces.  Countering their carpet riders is even more difficult on the pitching seas, but thankfully our SPB’s are faster and can keep out from under their deadly area of effect.  They are much more effective against our regular non-steam boats.  Ultimately, both sides slaughter each other a lot and no one gains any ground.
 
Our Theatre Commander asks for the design team to develop a larger boat that could either carry multiple HC1-E’s or a HA1.  We could so easily take the seas from those Moskurg dogs, if only we had the tools to do so.
 
Neither side gains ground in the Eastern or Western Seas.
 
Revision Credit!!!
Many years ago, a brilliantly red shooting star sailed across the skies, inspiring our troops and foretelling our eventual victory.  Once again the star is seen above, leaving a long red tail behind it as it makes its way across the sky.  To our surprise, this year the star doesn’t disappear back into the heavens.  Instead we watch as it comes down far to the east, striking the earth far beyond the horizon.  Plans are instantly made to travel to the landing site and claim whatever we may find there.  It will be a long journey, and it will be dangerous.  No doubt Moskurg will also make an attempt to lay their foul hands on whatever God has chosen to send us, so whatever forces we send must be able to deal with them accordingly.
 
The King asks for your judgement on what troops to send to claim the fallen star.  Keep in mind that whatever troops we send will be unable to fight for us this year, and if our opponent sends a superior force to claim the star they will likely crush what troops we send.  We don’t know what we will find when we get there, or indeed if anything even will be there, but it’s not something our King is willing to leave to chance.  What should we send?


It is 933, the Design Phase.

Spoiler: State of Forenia, 933 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arstotzkan Elite Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Arstotzkan Spells (click to show/hide)



Behavior Rules.  Please Read.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2225 on: May 11, 2017, 02:38:57 pm »

Oh this is not okay.
Possible solutions:
1.) HC3 - breech loading cannon with smaller caliber shells, on a swivel mount allowing for (nearly?) 360 degrees angles. The cannon fires MUCH faster.
2.) Hot-air balloon. It won't be as manyevarable as their stuff but it will be more sturdy and heavier. Maybe we could even mount an HC1-E on it?
3.) Guided fireballs
4.) Guided shells/arrows
5.) Flak shell - a shell that blows apart either after a timer (circuits) or magic field (of course the things are magical).
6.) We make a design exploiting a weak point in their current designs to make up for the disadvantage.
7.) Improve mage hunters somehow.
8.) Improve Anti-magic ammunition
9.) Firebomb counter
10.) Improved Anti-magic charms. (Higher range + selective in one design to make them drop out of he sky when they get close?)
11.) Anything else that's good.
12.) Antiantimagic would really help even the fields. Right now a major reason we're hurting in Skirmishes is anti-magic.
13.) Some air unit better than a hot air balloon.


Flare shouldn't be put on hold though. It still provides a skirmishing advantage and we desperately need one. The commander even said darkness is a problem. Flares would help greatly.
Crystalworks is still a very viable option since we need protection even more now.

So right now I think Crystalworks + Flare or HC3 + Flare. Or improvement of antimagic stuff.
EDIT: Magegems are extremely viable too. Even more so now we're at risk of them deploying anti-magic near our artillery. Mundane-ifying things would be extremely beneficial. Besides, even with their advantage it's pretty clear it'd be extremely hard for them to push forwards more.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:40:36 pm by Chiefwaffles »
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2226 on: May 11, 2017, 02:45:16 pm »

I'm seriously thinking we should invest as much as possible into frost towers this turn. They have with them many tools that we don't have a counter to, and playing catch up will just let them make more of them. Frost towers are proven to be army-killers and it's not something they can counter without a lot of research. It's time that we dictated the pace of the war.

Glory to Arstotzka.
Logged
All fanfics are heresy, each and every one, especially the shipping ones. Those are by far the worst.

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2227 on: May 11, 2017, 02:48:21 pm »

I think that's a bad idea. When our frost we're not effective than they are now it still didn't work to stop them when they didn't have firebombs and air units. We need something to actually stop them.
Investing in infrastructure this turn for future advancements is still a good idea since we should be able to hold them off for another turn unless they introduce another extremely powerful thing in one turn.
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2228 on: May 11, 2017, 02:51:36 pm »

Wait, were they using their anti magic while riding the carpets?

evictedSaint

  • Bay Watcher
  • if (ANNOYED_W_FANS==true) { KILL_CHAR(rand()); }
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2229 on: May 11, 2017, 02:52:09 pm »

Wait, were they using their anti magic while riding the carpets?

No.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2230 on: May 11, 2017, 02:52:52 pm »

Okay, this is nonsense.

We get a -3 penalty on building a slightly bigger cannon, but Moskurg gets to invent superstealthy, supereffective, and apparently cheap flight in what appears to be a single turn? (I try to keep track of previous turns. They did not have the free time, unless this design is 4-5 turns old)

When we rolled well on Plant Magic, we got the ability to create knee height shrubberies.

When we spend several turns on steam engines, we got a design that can just barely outpace the Moskurgians in a single area.

When we create a steamship based on previous technologies that we had long since researched, and rolled lucky, it was a flaw riddled wreck.

But Moskurg gets to open a new branch of magic, replicate the effect of one of the Starting Wands (which are awesome and powerful national effort spells), and not only do it in a single turn, but massively improve upon it?

This is far, far worse than the Fire projectiles they got. I do not know how many of your family they took hostage, but this design simply needs to be scrapped.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 03:04:33 pm by 10ebbor10 »
Logged

VoidSlayer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2231 on: May 11, 2017, 02:54:44 pm »

Wait, were they using their anti magic while riding the carpets?

No.

Then why weren't we shooting the enemy mages out of the sky with fireballs?  I just honestly want to know because it makes a huge difference in how we combat them.

Andres

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2232 on: May 11, 2017, 02:56:46 pm »

I think that's a bad idea. When our frost we're not effective than they are now it still didn't work to stop them when they didn't have firebombs and air units. We need something to actually stop them.
They were entirely effective when we managed to make it cold enough, such as in the Mountains. We basically walked all over them there, every single one of their advantages made irrelevant.

Your reasoning is incredibly illogical. You're saying that our frost towers didn't win us the battle in the Jungle and that's why we shouldn't do more frost towers. This is ignores the fact that the Jungle is naturally hotter than the Mountains which means it takes more to make them freeze and it ignores the fact that our men would fight at penalty due to the heat without our frost towers. Worst of all, it entirely misses the point of making frost towers better, which is to make the Jungle as cold as the Mountains despite the heat by making the towers produce more cold.

Furthermore, there are also the Plains to consider, and how they are colder than the Jungle. Just revising our current frost towers to be cheaper and thus doubling the amount we have would turn that place into a frozen wasteland, as they did in the Mountains. Combined with a proper Design to make them and they'd have no chance, even if they devise a counter this turn.

Glory to Arstotzka.
Logged
All fanfics are heresy, each and every one, especially the shipping ones. Those are by far the worst.

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2233 on: May 11, 2017, 02:59:15 pm »

Frost towers are basically a passive debuff to their army. That won't work - we need to actually actively directly counter their stuff. Just increasing a passive debuff won't remove the fact that they have fire bombers.
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

evictedSaint

  • Bay Watcher
  • if (ANNOYED_W_FANS==true) { KILL_CHAR(rand()); }
    • View Profile
Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2234 on: May 11, 2017, 03:04:14 pm »

Considering they spent a Design to make it, a Revision to make it stop killing their mages, an expense credit to make it cheap, and they don't have enough wizards to man both all their ballistas and their carpets, AND they had the appropriate modifiers on their roll, yes.

And what are you talking about rolling a -3?  Your effectiveness was rolled with no penalties, a -2 for expense for being made out of your most expensive tech, and a -1 for bugs for being larger than anything you've ever made.  It's the most long-range, powerful, lethal cannon in the world that Moskurg can't even hope to compare with without redesigning their ballista, it can fire 4 times a minute, is lacking ammo types and spotters, and you're upset that Moskurg made flying carpets?  You've already got arrows that by default explode when they're close to an enemy mage.  You are overstating the disparity between you guys, all because you were caught off-guard by their new invention.
Pages: 1 ... 147 148 [149] 150 151 ... 301