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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 376976 times)

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2580 on: May 25, 2017, 09:19:59 pm »

I am pretty sure that crystals were equal to steel, but lighter...

Magic Lance: [1, 3, 6]  You already have experience conjuring simple elemental forms and substances, so this provides a basis for your work on conjuring 'magic lances' to assist your men.  Following the description of your intended spell, you and your fellow mages spend several months working on how to conjure a solid, strong material able to form the basis for lances to improve your cavalry charge.  Eventually you devise a complex, draining spell that summons a lance of shimmering crystal that will last for about an hour before dissipating into the aether.  The crystal is strong, hard and has surprising tensile strength, and focuses into a deadly point at its business end.  It is on par with a lance made of steel, but substantially lighter.

The only problem is that you currently are unable to summon any lance wider than one quarter of an inch in diameter.  In its current form it has little practical use in a mounted charge, as even with its strength it will still snap on impact with such a slender cross-section, although some other use could be conceivable.

It is now the Revision Phase.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 09:23:26 pm by RAM »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2581 on: May 25, 2017, 09:40:09 pm »

When crafted into a weapon, the result is a blade as fine as a razor blade, harder than steel, lighter than a feather. 
This was because after we made the lances we developed crystal technology and ended up making it better than steel.
Revision: Crystal Magic Template [6!]
Our understanding of crystal magic has increased, giving us a bonus to developing that line of magic further.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2582 on: May 25, 2017, 09:45:16 pm »

Huh, and that design was a 4 in effectiveness.

Andres, what do you think of the Powered Crystal Circuits revision?
The entire idea is to accomplish "cheaper circuits" as well as the goals behind the original Crystal Circuits while getting bonuses in the rolls thanks to our experience with crystals, the Crystalworks, and most importantly the first attempt. I can change the fluff if wanted, because the only point is "try Crystal Circuits again using knowledge from last time but with a new approach to the one problem."
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2583 on: May 25, 2017, 09:53:04 pm »

Huh, and that design was a 4 in effectiveness.

Andres, what do you think of the Powered Crystal Circuits revision?
The entire idea is to accomplish "cheaper circuits" as well as the goals behind the original Crystal Circuits while getting bonuses in the rolls thanks to our experience with crystals, the Crystalworks, and most importantly the first attempt. I can change the fluff if wanted, because the only point is "try Crystal Circuits again using knowledge from last time but with a new approach to the one problem."
I think badly of it. We've been told that crystal is a fundamentally bad material to use when making circuits and developing crystal circuits further would be counterproductive at best. Imagine if it was this instead:
Quote
The entire idea is to accomplish "functioning doom laser" as well as the goals behind the original Radio Doom Laser while getting bonuses in the rolls thanks to our experience with radios, Radar, and most importantly the first attempt. I can change the fluff if wanted, because the only point is "try Radio Doom Laser again using knowledge from last time but with a new approach to the one problem."
Radio is a fundamentally bad EM wavelength to make a doom laser out of and that won't change no matter how much it's developed.

Assuming crystal circuits are possible - and it's been stated it isn't - then they'll be more difficult to develop than non-crystal circuits. And again, that's assuming it's possible at all.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2584 on: May 25, 2017, 09:53:22 pm »

Wait a minute.

You know what would be nice now?

Mass-Produced(and working) Equalizer: We've worked out how to use our Crystalworks and new manufacturing tecniques to mass-produce Equalizer shells that are also far less prone to failure.

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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2585 on: May 25, 2017, 10:17:04 pm »

Revision: Crystal Circuitry [1]

Crystals can be used for circuitry, it seems - they're just not a very good choice.

We can conjure crystals at very precise sizes, angles, and thicknesses thanks to our heavy investment into the stuff, and though the magical energy can flow through the hair-width crystal structure under correct circumstances, it invariably breaks.  Running the circuit produces a very small amount of heat, and for a malleable metal like gold that's fine - it can flex very slightly as it expands and contracts.  Normally it's not enough to disrupt the circuit, but for a ridged crystal structure even a slight amount of force is enough to induce hairline fractures that disrupt the flow of magic.  So, we've discovered we can use crystals to direct the flow of magic, but it's not effective to use it for magical circuitry, let alone circuitry on devices like the HA1 or the steam recycler.
From the revision post for Crystal Circuitry, we can conclude that the flaw with crystal circuitry is simple: Crystal isn't malleable and thus changes in heat will break it. Powered Crystal Circuitry should fix that.

To compare it to your analogy, it'd be
Quote
The entire idea is to accomplish "functioning doom laser" as well as the goals behind the original Doom Laser while getting bonuses in the rolls thanks to our experience with lasers, large weapons, and most importantly the first attempt. I can change the fluff if wanted, because the only point is "try Doom Laser again using knowledge from last time but with a new approach to the one problem."
It's one flaw that makes crystal unfit for circuits. If we fix this flaw, then it works.


But how about this?
Crystal-Nickel Circuitry - Embed nickel with bits of crystal to make it "magically conductive". The ""alloy"" is able to function in circuits while still remaining malleable and thus fit for use in circuits. Additionally, the melting point of nickel is much higher than that of gold, making it less prone to melting under stress in operation or from Moskurger fire.
Cheaper, lighter, and more reliable. Makes use of our metal bonus, and still benefits from general experience in tinkering with circuit designs. We can apply lessons we learned in materials for circuits here.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2586 on: May 25, 2017, 10:47:58 pm »

Sure, I'm willing to vote for that.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2587 on: May 25, 2017, 11:26:23 pm »

Personally, I feel like auto regenerative Crystal tissue is the best way to fix our Crystal circuits
That makes sense.
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Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2588 on: May 25, 2017, 11:29:46 pm »

@RAM: Waaay too ambitious, again. Making self-regenerating crystal in a revision is overambitious overkill. If we had a design, I wouldn't be opposed to it (disregarding the possibility of other designs I prefer), but in a revision it's asking for way too much to fix a problem that could be fixed with much simpler means.

@Andres: Alright.
Revision: Crystal-Nickel Circuitry
One day, while one of the project directors was looking at our piles of unused metal while reading over the parchment relating to the failed Crystal Circuitry project, he had an idea.

Crystal is magically conductive. We know that and are even using it to transport magical energy when not using it in circuits. But the problem is that it by itself doesn't work in circuits, as it's too brittle. The only metal we know of that truly works with circuits is gold - it transports magical energy just like crystal while remaining malleable enough to not disrupt the circuit with changes in temperature. But gold is heavy, expensive, and unreliable.
So what if we made our own metal?

The Crystal-Nickel alloy is created by embedding nickel (which we have large amounts of and are not using anyways) with crystal. This makes a largely nickel material, but that can conduct magical energy. The crystal-nickel alloy remains malleable and has a much higher melting temperature than that of gold, meaning it shouldn't melt under stress such as the circuitry in our HA1s and any of our circuitry on fire thanks to Moskurger fire bombs. It's cheap, thanks to our metal supply and plentiful crystal. And it works. It conducts energy just as well as crystal but without fracturing.

Crystal-Nickel alloy is only really useful in circuits, but it works great in circuits. It's more reliable, it's much cheaper, and much lighter. Anything using magic circuitry should be lighter, cheaper and reliable as well. Our HA1s should have an improved fire rate thanks to no more melting circuits. All our designs will become more resilient as Moskurger fire bombs will no longer be able to melt the circuitry. Our HA1s should be cheaper after removing the large amounts of gold originally required, and lighter. Our steam engines will be lighter and cheaper with no more heavy and expensive gold-based circuits. The Crystalworks will become easier to maintain as the large volumes of circuitry no longer requires gold.

Crystal-Nickel alloy is used instead of gold in our circuits, with obvious benefits. Higher melting point, much cheaper, and much lighter. Anything that uses our circuits should benefit to some degree.
Our last attempt at tinkering with circuits has revealed much in the way the material interacts with the circuit's functions, and our general experience with crystal manipulation and the Crystalworks should help here.

TL;DR
  • Increases fire rate + reliability of HA1s (gold circuitry melts when firing too fast)
  • Decreases expense of HA1 + HC1-E + future circuit designs (HA1 uses tons of gold circuitry and gold is expensive. EDIT: Apparently HC1-E too, as I'm told the gold is the last expensive component.)
  • Decreases weight of steam engine, HA1, HC1-E, and anything else using gold circuitry. (Gold is heavy. Remove gold then designs' weight decrease.)
  • Cheaper Crystalworks? (Crystalworks uses a lot of circuits. Cheaper circuits means cheaper crystalworks.)
The main benefits should be a notable decrease in the weight and cost of the Steam Engine and HA1. Everything using circuits should be more reliable + resilient as the circuits no longer melt due to fire bombs or operational stress, and the HA1 should fire faster.


If anyone thinks I went overboard with the fluff parts in a way that would hurt the revision, just lemme know. I'm adding Andres' vote for it, but he's obviously free to remove it if something changed between my last post and this one.
Quote
2 - Crystal-Nickel Circuits: Chiefwaffles, Andres
0 - Crystal Polymers (Tougher Crystal):
0 Crystal fire-plates:
0 Crystal Barrels and Shells:
0 Manually-detonated fireballs:
0 Shot-shells:

EDIT: Changed benefits so that it said HC1-E is cheaper too, based on what Andres said.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 01:52:26 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2589 on: May 26, 2017, 02:54:25 am »

Revision: Stable Magic Crystal Axes

We use the crystalworks to make the existing weapon for all our troops, now in a form that can not be dispelled but with the same powerful cutting edge.

Simple, uses the crystalworks, we can see how effective stable crystal is at resisting anti magic and equips our troops to destroy in hand to hand.  They have no close combat weapon to defeat our armor and their armor will not block the crystal cutting edge.

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2590 on: May 26, 2017, 08:12:08 am »

Decreases expense of HA1 + future circuit designs (HA1 uses tons of gold circuitry and gold is expensive. Maybe expense of HC1-E too, but it uses less and its expense didn't change when we added gold to it.)
IIRC, GM said that making circuits cheaper would make the HC1-Es cheaper. It's the final Expensive component they have, and after that we'd have one for every wizard, mage, and apprentice in our army.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2591 on: May 26, 2017, 11:48:27 am »

It seems like crystal-nickel circuits is winning. Unless that changes, I'll roll it up.

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2592 on: May 26, 2017, 02:38:30 pm »


Quote
3 - Crystal-Nickel Circuits: Chiefwaffles, Andres, Andrea
0 - Crystal Polymers (Tougher Crystal):
0 Crystal fire-plates:
0 Crystal Barrels and Shells:
0 Manually-detonated fireballs:
0 Shot-shells:

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2593 on: May 27, 2017, 04:16:56 am »

Yet another attempt at a design for the Crystalclad! If anyone has suggestions/criticism, just leeeemme know. This was primarily written because I was extremely bored today. I'm definitely not putting way too much effort into this.
Future Design: SBP2 "Crystalclad"

The Crystalclad is a marvel of Arstotzkan engineering, making use of many of our innovations to this day in order to create the most fearsome ship on the sea.

The entire ship is made out of crystal straight from the Crystalworks. Earlier designs had a inner skeleton made out of wood or steel, but as we have plentiful strong lasting crystal, there's no point to weaken the ship with unnecessary materials. The crystal hull makes the ship nearly impervious to any known form of Moskurg weaponry. Crystal is unimpacted by fire bombs, and ballista bolts will largely just scratch the surface. In the rare event of critical damage, any old battery apprentice can simply summon bits of crystal to fix the damage. The summoned crystal may require maintenance and won't be as strong as the rest of the uniform hull, but it allows easy field repairs on our ships until they get to port.

The ship has two decks - one inside and one outside. The upper deck is sparsely visited by crew, and is largely used only by sentries and for loading/unloading cargo and people onto the ship at port. The inner deck is where the cargo is stored, the ship is run, the crew lives, the steam engines reside, etc. etc.. This further increases the protectiveness of the new crystal hull - fire may still be particularly damaging to humans even if it doesn't damage the ship, but keeping the crew inside the ship protects them from Moskurger attacks.

Between the middle and back of the inner deck resides the "weapons bay". The weapons bay is slightly raised upwards to the rest of the main deck, and has an opening bay door at the top allowing for fitting in new weapons and firing outwards from. The weapons bay has configurable mounts for weapons. The goal is to fit an armament of three HC1-Es or one HA1 here. Cannons and artillery fire outward from the weapons bay which can be closed as needed. The extreme majority of Crystalclads will be holding HC1-Es for closer-combat, but a few will be delegated artillery ships using HA1s to support the rest.
Armaments can be changed on a whim, as it's just a matter of moving the artillery in and out of an opened weapons bay at port.

Two steam engines inside the inner deck power the Crystalclad. While crystal is still rather light, the increased size of the ship and armament makes the ship noticeable heavier than the Fog-O-War. While it doesn't share the same problem of sitting extremely low in the water thanks to its size, it has to use two steam engines in order to maintain the same pace.

Also inside the inner deck is the Battery, where an array of AA/A-sized Magegems (depending on what goes with the Crystalclad's expense the most) are housed then connected to the steam engines, weapons, and anything else needing power by insulated crystal conduits. Without a mage on board, a fully-charged Crystalclad has a very long operational life - our steam engines are quite efficient as the power simply goes to maintaining enchantments. However, the use of weapons provokes a noticeable drain on the battery. Without a mage, a Crystalclad can still serve as an excellent transport and provide limited fire support, but mage-less Crystalclads aren't intended since with our plentiful apprentices every ship should have a mage. With a mage, the battery allows them to only focus on charging the battery instead of having to run between operating every individual cannon and the steam engines, and when the ship is charged, use their own spells on the upper deck.
The battery also has the ability to charge individual magegems, in case that ever becomes a factor.

TL;DR
Large
The Crystalclad is significantly larger than a Fog-O-War, but not by a huge degree. This isn't the equivalent of trying to make a carrier from a schooner, and I definitely feel as the main "challenge" it should be fine to handle. The size increase is to fit the new armament + steam engines without sacrificing integrity like the small Fog-O-War did.

Crystal Hull
The hull is made entirely out of Crystalworks crystal. This confers extreme armor capabilities. Because of the Crystalworks, we don't have to worry about maintenance or dispelling. We also can get an Expense credit for this because of the Crystalworks. Thanks to the Crystalworks, this is probably the easiest task and even benefits us (expense credit) for doing it.
Also, the hull is made so the crew and weapons go inside and are protected from Moskurger firepower. Weapons fire out of a vertical "weapons bay" door.

Armament
3x HC1-E/1x HA1 OR 2x HC1-E. I'm fine with both, but by myself I'd shoot for 3x HC1-E. This gives most of the Crystalclads three times the firepower of a Fog-O-War, and gives us the ability to field our HA1s in a couple of ships at sea. Even if we just do 2x HC1-E, I'm completely fine as I understand why people may think 3x HC1-Es/1x HA1 is ambitious. 2x HC1-Es means twice the firepower. HC1-Es are Expensive and two of them should still be fine, but the more serious 3x HC1-Es/1x HA1 would probably not bode well for expense if we fail the Crystal-Nickel Circuitry revision.

Two Steam Engines
Instead of one. This means the Crystalclad should be as fast (if not faster??) as the Fog-O-War. Extraordinarily simple task - just add another steam engine. With their semi-recent Expense buff, steam engines aren't particularly expensive as adding one to a ship doesn't affect its cost. With a successful Crystal-Nickel circuitry revision, this could have next to no impact on expense.

Magegem Battery
This means we don't have to have a ton of apprentices on board to operate each cannon and individually monitor the steam engines. The Magegem Battery supplies power to the rest of the ship via crystal conduits (which we did in Crystalworks) meaning we have one centralized place for mages to handle. It even lets our ships move about without mages (energy-efficient steam engines)! Basically, this means we can just have one battery apprentice/mage down in the boiler room Magegem Battery providing power to the whole ship, and when it's charged, help out in battles with their spells.

Expense
Worst case scenario, we get Very Expensive. (Thanks to Crystalworks). I'm optimistic about getting just Expensive, but even at Very Expensive it's a huge bonus to our fleet. Though if we somehow fail again at cheaper circuitry this revision, I'm sure it'll be Very Expensive thanks to the cannons/artillery and steam engines.

TL;DR TL;DR: A brand-new extremely durable ship with heavy firepower. It has a lot of stuff compared to a Fog-O-War, but almost all of this stuff is simply new application of existing technology. The Crystalclad is about half of my reason for pushing Magegems and Crystalworks so hard.
-Large (not huge, though.) (A step up from our current ships but we're not trying to make any huge advancements here)

I decided to go with an all-crystal hull because:
1.) Wood skeleton would be too much of a weak link - it'd be like if you made concrete supports and everything else steel on a skyscraper.
2.) Metal is heavy and still inferior to crystal. Our crystal gets an expense credit, is much lighter, and is stronger. There's no reason to use metal anywhere instead of crystal.

Also,
Evicted, what does crystal look like anyways? I've imagined it as a kind of slightly-translucent and extremely-slightly shimmering cyan-ish material. This is clearly a super important question and is critical for any crystal-based design.

And idea for future design: Aether Anchor. Generate magical energy without a mage present. Not in the near future, since in my opinion we already seriously pushed the edges of non-combat designs recently with the Crystalworks + Magegems. But at some point it could be nice to have our magitech not rely on living batteries apprentices.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #2594 on: May 27, 2017, 08:26:10 am »

Armament
3x HC1-E/1x HA1 OR 2x HC1-E.
This is simultaneously too ambitious and not ambitious enough. A HA1 is a very large artillery piece and we do not have the requisite technology to mount one without significant bugs coming up in the design.

At the same time only having 3/2 HC1-Es is a bit pathetic. Due to the shape that cannons come in, we can easily mount 8 of them on each side of the ship for a total of 16 cannons per ship. We can totally have that much firepower on board while still having a relatively small, fast ship.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Glory to Arstotzka.
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