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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 376938 times)

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3405 on: June 22, 2017, 08:43:58 pm »

If we could get a material that is, say, four or five times as dense as steel, then that would be useful for ammunition and ballast. Assuming that it has any half-decent material properties, then it would also be great for heavy armour and extreme-resistance needs. And given that this is all based upon conjuration, and we have already seen how easy it is to tweak things with the wasps into fire wasps, it should be no more than a design to get a superior original material. The hard work of making it permanent has already been addressed so it should be easy.

Crystal on the other hand would be based upon the original crystals. Getting them to the density of steel would be difficult, and they would not necessarily keep their proportional strength. No dount it would be an excellent replacement for steel, but we do already have steel, and the lack of depleted uranium bullets and titanium armour is more of a hole than the lack of rigid steel.
The numbers were just hypothetical examples.

As for the theory? It is not terrible. Adjusting crystals would help. I doubt that we would get a fair trade. We are probably already pushing the limits of how light it can get with anywhere near this level of strength, but who knows. As for heavier? I feel that heavier would be better done with other things.

 If we could get a material that is, say, four or five times as dense as steel, then that would be useful for ammunition and ballast. Assuming that it has any half-decent material properties, then it would also be great for heavy armour and extreme-resistance needs. And given that this is all based upon conjuration, and we have already seen how easy it is to tweak things with the wasps into fire wasps, it should be no more than a design to get a superior original material. The hard work of making it permanent has already been addressed so it should be easy.

Crystal on the other hand would be based upon the original crystals. Getting them to the density of steel would be difficult, and they would not necessarily keep their proportional strength. No dount it would be an excellent replacement for steel, but we do already have steel, and the lack of depleted uranium bullets and titanium armour is more of a hole than the lack of rigid steel.
Crystal is a wonder material made of magic. We can assign it whatever properties we want as a result so long as we put in the Revision to make it so. Making a new material is unnecessary, does not benefit from our crystalworks, and would not get a bonus due to us never having worked with it and due to not getting the +1 that all crystal-related rolls get.

The crystalworks revision would let us get crystal four or five times as dense as steel and in doing so also proportionally increase its durability. Also, remember that the "hard work of making it permanent" only applies to crystal, thanks to our crystalworks. This new material of yours would need a Design to be made and then another Design to make a factory for it.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3406 on: June 22, 2017, 09:20:34 pm »

I am pretty sure that you can get the new material and the manufacturing facility for it in the same design. Don't forget that the crystalworks is not an assembly line, it is a magical template system. We form a stack of magical sheets and produce a spell that makes permanent crystals in a specific shape. We just swap out the bit that summons a crystal with a bit that summons the new material. We already know how to make the facility work with conjured materials, changing the summoning spell in the C.W. would be no different from changing the material in a normal conjuration spell.

Regeneration is also derived from the summoning practices rather than the material itself, so that should not be lost either.

But I suppose that it might be plausible that crystals could be four or five times as dense as steel, or about 10-15 times as dense as it currently is. It seems like it is pushing things a bit too far to me, magic seems to like its consistency afterall, and crystal is seen as 'light', but it is not impossible. I guess the major point is if we want this new material to have the same properties as crystal, that being rigidity. I think that perhaps the new material might want something different, like conductivity, such that you can't do much to any one part without doing it to the whole thing. I feel that applying the same properties to the light material and the heavy material would be crossing purposes.

And, again, I feel that making arbitrary adjustments to crystal density is more difficult than you imagine. It would be relatively easy to swap the signage on the charges to produce antimatter, raising the density of the material would require increasing its complexity, adjusting its scale, enlarging its componentswithout changing its structure, increasing the magnitude of its fundamental components... No matter how you look at it, it is going to be a pain to do that.

I feel that increasing the density of naturally light crystal is much more difficult than deriving a new material from the same conjuration processes that is naturally dense. I do not feel that any of the advantages of crystal would be lost except for those that are intrinsic to the material's own properties, which does not apply to regeneration nor production bonuses(Though it is very possible that denser material, regardless of whether it is crystal or not, would require more magic to produce.). I also like the idea that their properties could be combined by using an overlayed summoning that would fill in the low-density material's low density with the high-density material(That is, filling it in, not alloying... More like reinforcing concrete and less like mixing concrete...). Finally, I think that we could really benefit from the experience in new conjurations, rather than trying to squeeze ever more-and-more precise refinements out of crystals.
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3407 on: June 23, 2017, 03:51:12 am »

It's at least worth a shot. The potential benefits would be significant, even if it just gets us a +1 to bugs rolls when dealing with complex crystal structures. (We're planning to make everything from guns to engines from the stuff.) For a mere Revision, it would get us a lot.

Also worth considering with your material is that, when designing the crystalclad, it was noted that it's very tricky getting it to work right with other materials, which is why there's no metal or wood in the design. That's another reason to revise crystal rather than make a new material, among others.

It's better if we try to use crystal as much as we can for our material needs. The more we do, the more experience we get with the material and the more bonuses we get involving it. This strategy worked extremely well for us in regards to the fireball and it's a strategy we would do well to replicate with crystal.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 03:55:32 am by Andres »
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3408 on: June 23, 2017, 04:33:25 am »

It is a strategy that completely murdered us with the crystals when they created antimagic and crippled our frost towers and fireballs when they invented cheat-metal. They just need to turn their wind magic into air vibrations to make a sonic weapon that breaks crystals, because everyone knows that crystals are fatally weak to sonic weapons... I mean, really not, there is sort of a weakness inherent in highly structured materials being weak to internal breakage and sympathetic resonance, maybe, but you are really pushing it to use sound to damage something that can survive hammer blows as well as steel can, that is way more resilient to sound than, say, diamonds are...

 It is about time that we just arbitrarily negate all their stuff by asking nicely...

Fair-day cage
An intricate metal box formed of untold thousands of subtle wire patterns, studded with innumerable gems and intricate spell-work. It accumulates the weather-based desires of all the surrounding soldiers and uses them to summon forth their ideal weather conditions, which typically involve the absence of lightning... national effort wish-granting magic
We can maybe get experience from the frost towers as a large edifice and conjuration on the basis of arbitrarily imposing our will to directly make things exist... and also circuits help, but we really need to formalise that into ritual magic for massive undertakings.
Or just tweak the frost towers into convection-powered air-removers.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:37:37 am by RAM »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3409 on: June 23, 2017, 04:42:22 am »

Faith-based magic is Moskurg heresy.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3410 on: June 23, 2017, 04:19:17 pm »

Kegger heretics have faith in magic. Arstotzkan magic should have faith in Arstozkans. That is what I proposed.
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helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3411 on: June 23, 2017, 05:04:32 pm »

Did I mention how I love that we even have our own slurs for the enemy here? Honestly, it's the community that nights these arms race games.

((What's the kegger slur for us?))
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3412 on: June 23, 2017, 05:25:59 pm »

Artzy's.

Also, votes locked.

Kadzar

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3413 on: June 24, 2017, 06:48:19 pm »

Did I mention how I love that we even have our own slurs for the enemy here? Honestly, it's the community that nights these arms race games.

((What's the kegger slur for us?))
((Moskegger))
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Glory to Arstotzka!

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3414 on: June 27, 2017, 10:40:55 pm »

Combat for 941

Moskurg spends their design this year matching Arstotzka's Academy for Adequate Apprenticeship with their own university, the Moskurg Apprentice Gramary for Inter-magical Competency.  Unlike the AAAA, which gathers anyone  from the country side with even the most remote ability to cast magic, the MAGIC uses Moskurg's mind-bending abilities to transfer some of the knowledge and skill from their more advanced wizards to their less-skilled apprentices.  The result is more higher-leveled apprentices, many of whom are Wizard-Level in skill.  They don't have any more magic-users than before, but they do have more skilled users now.  They spend their revision once again improving their control over the fickle force of nature that has been their main-stay for the past few turns.  Titled "Heretics Fallacy", this frightening spell allows user to exert greater control over where and how lightning strikes.  They can't force it to perform impossible tasks, but they can encourage it to flow through an Arstotzkan soldier rather than down a lightning rod.

Arstotzka spends their design delving into new ammo types.  Titled "Blastshells" after the spell developed to power their weapons without steam, these shells have a hollow tube down the center.  A circuit-scroll with magegems powering it can be inserted into the shell before firing, allowing for an additional fireblast spell to occur in a directed fashion on firing for additional range, or to occur in an undirected fashion upon landing.  The shell could conceivably do both, but then becomes another level expensive.  For their revision, they improve their magegems to hold more power per size.  Using a new crystal-glass formula, these batteries hold a considerably higher amount of magical energy while remaining the same size.  Most frightening of all, these batteries could conceivably allow mundane troops to use magic!  For the moment, the main use is in their R1, which is juuust cheap enough that their commanders can be outfitted with one if they so choose to carry it.



The jungle is non-stop explosions.

Finally an ammo type that fills the gap they've so desperately been needing, Arstotzka's blastshells are devastating.  Where before they could rely on massed pin-point firing events to score some casualties, their explosive shells turn out to be a beautiful, deadly weapon that makes it nearly impossible to not score a hit...assuming their artillery is dialed in to the correct location.  The smaller size of their gems allows the majority of their shells to be out-fitted with the -E variant of their circuit-scroll cores, and without al-Mutriqa to harass the supply lines the cannons can fire these shells all day long.  The jungle, which had at one point been seeing the Moskurg soldiers push back north, is filled with splintered trees and craters.  Marching forward is not an option for Moskurg, as any man who enters the range of Arstotzka's HA1's can expect explosive fury to rain from the heavens.  Even standing off at long range doesn't really help, as it's not uncommon for longer-ranged shells to come crashing down out of nowhere.  They even explode sometimes, too, although that's far rarer. 

Moskurg can do little - their tornados require line-of-sight to work, and they can't get into line-of-sight without exploding into chunks.  The sudden increase in R1 rifles means their unarmored carpet riders can expect dozens of shots to come in any time they get in range.  They can't drop firestorm grenades any more, although they can still call down lightning.  The fact that it can now kill soldiers is a relief, because otherwise there'd be no way to really hit back.  The Alsamma Safina airship can't even use its ballista any more - the increased range means that Arsotzka's cannons can now occasionally shoot one down at extreme range.  These shots are often horribly inaccurate, and generally don't do much damage unless they also explode on impact.  But if they do hit and they do explode, the airship comes down in a mess of Adamantium, junglewood, and carpets.

Moskurg does control the Western Sea, however, and they do their best landing behind enemy lines and disrupting supply lines when they can.  It's not enough to stop the Arstotzkan war machine, but it does help.

The battle is decisively in Arstotzka's favor.  Arstotzka pushes Moskurg back and gains a section of jungle.

Arstotzka gains a section of jungle.


al-Mutriqa does his due diligence here in the plains.

Aside from educating fresh young minds back in the capitol, he spends nearly every waking moment out on his War Pegasi, harassing enemy troops and derailing trains.  The derailed trains hurts Arstotzka here pretty badly - the trains are unarmed and full of valuable artillery shells (although they have the sense not to transport the gems charged, meaning no messy explosion).  Without frequent supply drops, the HA1's must annoyingly fall silent every so often.  This is a god-send for Moskurg soldiers who've taken to ducking in their trenches every time they hear a noise.

Even though the fire rate is reduced, Moskurg still suffers.  Carpet riders can't get close without being shot at, and they're too slow and too unarmored to survive a thumb-sized bullet going through their lamellar armor or carpet.  The Airships aren't able to provide covering fire without being slammed with every cannon in range, and Moskurg can't do much beyond cede ground at an alarming rate.

Despite al-Mutriqa's best efforts, Arstotzka leap-frogs trenchlines on their way south.

Arstotzka gains a section of the plains.


The desert isn't much different.

Arstotzka relies entirely on their cannons, and without a need for water there's very little that can be done to stop them.  The most detrimental thing to their progress south is the difficulty in keeping their cannons supplied.  Moskurg knows the lands better, owns the nearby ocean, and is experienced in fighting wide-open areas, but they don't have the temperature advantage which hurts.  Their air power still can't help beyond carpet-riders casting lightning from far-off, and Arstotzkan soldiers tend to do better when melee occurs.  Arstotzkan commanders generally keep their rifles slung except for when they see a carpet over head, as the reloading action takes too long to make it particularly useful in the field.  They instead default to using their crystal axes along with the rest of their men.  The melee's are close, but they tend to go in Arstotzka's favor more often than not.

Against all odds, Arstotzka does the impossible and firmly takes hold of Moskurgs homelands.

Arstotzka gains a section of the desert.


In the Western ocean, Myark continues his sea campaign and succeeds in pushing a section of the coastline back. 

Now that the HA1's have a reason to exist on ships, several of the Crystalclads are retrofitted with a single HA1 rather than their normal compliment of three HC1-E's.  It's large and the ships don't move particularly fast, but they now have a way of hitting the Airships that were devastatingly effective on the seas.  As soon as an Alsamma Safina appears on the horizon, every heavy artillery ship turns about and begins firing. Without air support, Sirocco's are thoroughly outclassed.  Carpet riders are the only things that stand a chance, and even then Myark is uncannily accurate with his rifle.

The Eastern sea sees Moskurg do a little better, but it's not enough.  It's not nearly enough.

Arstotzka gains a section of the Eastern and Western Seas.
 

Research Credit!!!
Spoiler: Bjorn's Thesis (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hayat's Thesis (click to show/hide)

It's come time for the heirs to present their Thesis and undergo examination, to see if they are truly worthy of the title of 'Wizard'.  Unbeknownst to each other, both heirs present their thesis at the same time to their respective council of esteemed wizardly professors.

Bjorn's thesis delves into the concept of a second reality, removed from our own, known as the 'Aether'.  His thesis speculates on the potential possibility of drawing power from this realm by artificially recreating the link all mages make when casting.  To this end, he presents what he proudly refers to as an "Aethergem" construct.  It consists of lots and lots of copper circuit scrolls, anti-magic gems, magegems, and a small hamster on a spinning wheel.  Unfortunately he can't exactly get the device to work; whether the hamster wasn't running fast enough or whether it never worked at all isn't quite clear, but everyone agrees that it's quite impressive and he gains his diploma.

Hayat's thesis involves a rather unusual application of the Wand of Thunderbolts.  Rather than using it to kill Arstotzkans, her thesis concerns how one may use it to instead produce the light.  The board of professors is quick to point out that a blast of lightning already produces light, but she demonstrates her point by presenting a small, bulbous device powered by a wand.  It produces a surprising amount of light in a non-destructive manner, at least until the glass surprisingly shatters after a few minutes.  Still, everyone agrees that it was quite impressive and she gains her diploma.

The fact that Hayat managed to produce a working model of something that doesn't explode [on purpose] is enough to reduce loudly dissenting nobles to mild grumbling, securing Hayat's position as heir for a bit longer.

Unfortunately for Bjorn, his thesis ended up being too theoretical and not providing a more tangible result.  Considering his thesis consisted largely of stating what had already been accomplished by others rather than focusing on his own achievements, many accuse him of spending more time reading than actually working - something which his detractors quickly point to as an example of him being "a fuckin' nerd" and thus unfit to lead through strength as his father had.  The minor chief they'd been supporting, Sweyn Hardrada, assures everyone that he still stands by his oath and will support the King, but the fact that he doesn't explicitly state he'd support Bjorn as well leads to much tension among the royal court.

Arstotzka will gain a +1 to effectiveness for their next design involving gems.
Moskurg will gain a +1 to effectiveness for their next design involving mundane applications of lightning, and gain a Research Credit as well.


Revision Credit!!!

Now that both heirs are full-fledged wizards, it's time for them to prove their might on the battlefield.  Both will fight for their countries this year, leading a small squad of hand-picked wizards to help prove themselves in battle.  They'll be well protected, of course, but accidents have been known to happen on the battlefield...

Pick the area in which your heir will be fighting this year.  If you lose ground in this area, your heir may become injured...or worse.  If you gain ground, your heir may learn enough to apply their knowledge next year to help the nation's magical advancements through a Revision Credit.



It is 942, the Design Phase.

Spoiler: State of Forenia, 942 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arstotzkan Elite Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Arstotzkan Spells (click to show/hide)



Behavior Rules.  Please Read.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 11:29:50 pm by evictedSaint »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3415 on: June 27, 2017, 11:02:52 pm »

We have a mage gem bonus, but I think we should concentrate on making an APC. 

If we have steel external armor with cooling circuits and crystal inside it should allow it to survive a large amount of damage by lightning.  We would need one or two mages inside the thing to power and repair it but even a slow one with heavy armor carrying like 8-10 soldiers would be devastating.  Extra armor would only add weight also, steel and crystal should both be cheap enough, and allow it to not be knocked around by tornadoes or be penetrated by bolts or flying debris.

As an alternative, some kind of strong magic shielding spell might be good, but that veers into new magic territory.

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3416 on: June 27, 2017, 11:15:24 pm »

evictedSaint, this is clearly not Chiefwaffles' fault. He put effort into making sure the thesis was as good as it was and made sure that it wouldn't break the rules. It feels very unfair that he should be penalised not for fault of his own, but because of issues with software of all things. I'd like to request that in exchange for him editing his thesis until it's DEFINITELY below the word limit, we get a Research Credit for it just like Moskurg did. As it is, it just feels like we've been cheated out of our reward.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3417 on: June 27, 2017, 11:18:38 pm »

Hmmm...alright, I'll fix it.

Edit: Fixed.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 11:22:34 pm by evictedSaint »
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3418 on: June 27, 2017, 11:24:52 pm »

Damn, so it still wasn't worth anything. Well, at least now I can gloat about how much more likely my thesis would've been likely to succeed!
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #3419 on: June 28, 2017, 12:40:04 am »

control over where and how lightning strikes.  They can't force it to perform impossible tasks, but they can encourage it to flow through an Arstotzkan soldier rather than down a lightning rod.
Just for my own peace-of-mind, I am just going to say that it is easier to get lightning to travel horizontally than to go through a human when there is a nice, tasty metal rod sitting next to them just oozing with conduction and capacity. I dare say it would even be easier to get lighting to go through an S-bend. There, I have said it, now I can happily go back to playing in a fictional setting!

Devumes
These small flowering annuals have had their nature magically attuned to gems. By carefully making an incision and implanting a gem into the bulb prior to planting, the plant channels minerals and magic from the environment into the gem and causes the gem to grow at a miraculous pace(for gems). Thus, when the bulb is harvested, the gem has become much larger. These large gems can be used for all existing gemcraft, allowing larger versions or cutting these larger gems to make smaller gemcrafts more numerous. With this we will finally be free of the yoke of being forced to mine for new gems, we simply need to preserve enough to maintain a steady harvest.
Of course, one can also apply dogwood staves to accelerate this effect...

Our batteries are still too small. Our plants are still too simple. This could lead to battery-chargers... Also, we ought to do more with gems, like, elemental gems to boost our elemental spells or focus gems to improve a mage's skill or something...
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