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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 376928 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4320 on: August 24, 2017, 02:06:36 pm »

Le nope.

Let's not waste any more time on that until next year. Now let's all vote Rocketshells and fix our artillery.

Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
0 - Crystal Subconjuration
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
1 - Nickel Honest Strike: Voidslayer
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
1 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres

EXPENSE CREDIT:
5 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4321 on: August 24, 2017, 02:38:49 pm »

We built a design this turn that relies completely on air superiority.
Our fighter is going to become Cheap.

We need to improve the capabilities of our air game. Upgrading crystal armor makes it so we'll be able to fly the Valkyrie into combat situations once we upgrade its agility/stability, it means the Valkyrie is less delicate, and it'll make the Lightning even stronger.

Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
1 - Crystal Subconjuration: Chiefwaffles
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
1 - Nickel Honest Strike: Voidslayer
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
1 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres

EXPENSE CREDIT:
5 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski
[/quote]
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4322 on: August 24, 2017, 09:08:26 pm »

Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
1 - Crystal Subconjuration: Chiefwaffles
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
1 - Nickel Honest Strike: Voidslayer
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
2 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres, helmacon

EXPENSE CREDIT:
5 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski

Aerophobic crystals gets a vote from me. Partly because its the best option, partly because it's the only option with a link.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4323 on: August 24, 2017, 09:16:38 pm »

Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
1 - Crystal Subconjuration: Chiefwaffles
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
1 - Nickel Honest Strike: Voidslayer
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
2 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres, helmacon

EXPENSE CREDIT:
5 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski

Hmph. I linked Crystal Subconjuration. (Which is just basically making crystal stronger without increasing weight.)

Why you should vote for Crystal Subconjuration:

  • Moskurg's advantage is entirely air-based. If we definitively win in the air, we win everywhere else.
  • This turn we just doubled-down on our airgame by making the Valkyrie, something which relies on our air superiority. The Valkyrie will be useless without air superiority.
  • The Valkyrie is completely unarmored. We need to armor the Valkyrie if we want to use it in combat situations. The Valkyrie will be impossible to use for boarding and will be very delicate until we give it better armor. If we ever want to give the Valkyrie a more active role, it needs armor. Crystal Subconjuration gives it armor.
  • Crystal Subconjuration also helps the Lightning, increasing its effectiveness in air and ensuring continued air superiority.
  • Crystal Subconjuration also helps everywhere we use Crystal. Including Combat Armor, Crystalclads, the Restless (kind of), and more. Everything we make is made out of crystal.

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4324 on: August 24, 2017, 09:19:27 pm »

What is crystal subconjouration again?

I just want stronger crystal that is resistant to shocks/impact and heat and is the same weight.

That should improve both ships and maybe the IFV.

Ideally it should allow all crystal vehicles to go up one level in armor, so current unarmored becomes light armor, light armor like the Lightning becomes medium armored and the IFV becomes heavily armored.

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4325 on: August 24, 2017, 09:36:51 pm »

  • Moskurg's advantage is entirely air-based. If we definitively win in the air, we win everywhere else.
  • This turn we just doubled-down on our airgame by making the Valkyrie, something which relies on our air superiority. The Valkyrie will be useless without air superiority.
  • The Valkyrie is completely unarmored. We need to armor the Valkyrie if we want to use it in combat situations. The Valkyrie will be impossible to use for boarding and will be very delicate until we give it better armor. If we ever want to give the Valkyrie a more active role, it needs armor. Crystal Subconjuration gives it armor.
  • Crystal Subconjuration also helps the Lightning, increasing its effectiveness in air and ensuring continued air superiority.
  • Crystal Subconjuration also helps everywhere we use Crystal. Including Combat Armor, Crystalclads, the Restless (kind of), and more. Everything we make is made out of crystal.
1. Our biggest advantage is our artillery, something which they have made very ineffective with their wind magic. The easiest, simplest way of getting an advantage over Moskurg is to get back that advantage. Our artillery has proven to be effective against their air assets so it will help in that regard as well.
2. Between the cheap Lightnings, the increased speed aerophobic crystal gives those Lightnings, and the AA fire our artillery will put out, we will have our air superiority.
3. The Valkyrie does not need to be used right in the thick of combat to be effective in combat situations. Furthermore, "unarmoured" just means they don't use any extra crystal for protection. They're still made of crystal and that means they'll be pretty tough regardless.
4. Aerophobic crystal helps the Lightning as well, allowing it to outmanoeuvre and outrun opposition much more easily.
5. Crystal subconjuration only helps everywhere crystal is used as armour. Right now, the strength of crystal as armour isn't an issue. It's our limited offensive capabilities that we have trouble with. Allowing our ammunition to fly farther, faster, and more accurately will do more for the war effort than better armour, especially since it means our artillery can once more be as useful as it used to be.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4326 on: August 24, 2017, 09:46:16 pm »

Crystal Subconjuration is ultimately just making crystal stronger. Fluff-wise, we basically just try to tweak the more basic structure to get a stronger crystal.

Here's two alternative revisions though:

Revision: Aether Reactor - Crystal Dampeners

Via tweaking of the Aether Reactor Mk.2's energy dispellment circuits, we should be able to convert kinetic energy into sound in addition to the existing magical energy conversion. And as the Aether Reactor's power network should span the entirety of designs utilizing it (the Lightning turret, pneumatics, controls, especially the KPD, etc.), the dispellment effect should be felt across the entire design.

As the current system is designed to handle sudden overloads by the reactor, it should fit well (or at least well enough) with the sudden kinetic energy pulses from weapon impacts. Of course, not all of the kinetic energy can be converted, which is why we've named this revision Crystal Dampeners. It should greatly reduce the effect of projectiles hitting armor.

Essentially, when the armor of a design using the Reactor Mk. 2 is hit by something - a lightning bolt, a ballistae bolt, a coilgun shell, a bomb, anything - some of the energy of the impact is converted into harmless sound.

TL;DR: Tweak the Reactor's "sudden excess magical energy -> sound" circuitry to also do the same to kinetic energy, and it should apply across the whole craft due to the whole craft (KPD, turrets, pneumatics, etc.) being connected to the reactor. Thus greatly decreasing the damage of enemy weaponry, whether it's coilguns or lightning or ballistae or whatever.



Revision: Blastcrystal

Damage from weapon impacts is energy.
Crystal regeneration is energy-based.

These two things match.

Using similar techniques to anti-magic gems or the Aether Reactor Mk.2's safety circuits, we can tweak crystal to "route" a bit of energy from impacts to regeneration. Of course, only a small percentage of the energy is used towards regeneration. But that's less damage for the crystal and a bit more regeneration for the crystal.

This should make our crystal much more durable!

TL;DR: Harness a tiny portion of kinetic energy on crystal to instead route to crystal regeneration. Reduce effect of weapons against crystal.




1. Our biggest advantage is our artillery, something which they have made very ineffective with their wind magic. The easiest, simplest way of getting an advantage over Moskurg is to get back that advantage. Our artillery has proven to be effective against their air assets so it will help in that regard as well.
2. Between the cheap Lightnings, the increased speed aerophobic crystal gives those Lightnings, and the AA fire our artillery will put out, we will have our air superiority.
3. The Valkyrie does not need to be used right in the thick of combat to be effective in combat situations. Furthermore, "unarmoured" just means they don't use any extra crystal for protection. They're still made of crystal and that means they'll be pretty tough regardless.
4. Aerophobic crystal helps the Lightning as well, allowing it to outmanoeuvre and outrun opposition much more easily.
5. Crystal subconjuration only helps everywhere crystal is used as armour. Right now, the strength of crystal as armour isn't an issue. It's our limited offensive capabilities that we have trouble with. Allowing our ammunition to fly farther, faster, and more accurately will do more for the war effort than better armour, especially since it means our artillery can once more be as useful as it used to be.
Disclaimer: I'm not against Aerophobic Crystal, I'd just prefer upping our armor instead.

1. Things change. Moskurg is entirely airborne now. Artillery isn't good against airships. At all. We already don't have a problem with their land forces, which artillery is good against.
2. Artillery isn't good at AA fire, and we should double down on air superiority. Make sure we have the lead. We can't get complacent before we even know if it's going to work.
3. "Unarmored" means it isn't armored. Not "it's relatively unarmored for crystal", but that it isn't armored. Just like how a very thin sheet of steel can be easily punctured by just about anything.
4. The Lightning already easily outmanoeuvres and outruns its opposition.
5. Just because it isn't fixing an "issue" doesn't mean it's not effective. Upping the armor of nearly every design we have is an insane improvement.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

VoidSlayer

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4327 on: August 24, 2017, 10:10:46 pm »

Your blast crystal gave me an idea....

Revision: Blasting Crystal

Crystals are made out of stable energy, what if they were designed to destabilize when hit, releasing all the energy into an explosion.  That is what blasting crystal is, dense crystal that detonates when struck hard, releasing all the energy used to create a massive explosion.


Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
2 - Crystal Subconjuration: Chiefwaffles, Voidslayer
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
0 - Nickel Honest Strike:
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
2 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres, helmacon

EXPENSE CREDIT:
6 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski, voidslayer


« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 10:19:18 pm by VoidSlayer »
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Gwolfski

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4328 on: August 25, 2017, 06:13:58 am »


Quote from: Votes
REVISION 2

0 - Heavy Shells
2 - Crystal Subconjuration: Chiefwaffles, Voidslayer
0 - Basic Crystal Armor Camouflage:
1 - Rocketshells: FallacyofUrist
0 - Relentless Engine:
0 - Nickel Honest Strike:
0 - Cloud eater towers:
0 - True Flight:
1 - KPD5 Phased Array: Kadzar
0 - KPD5 Coregem:
3 - Aerophobic Crystal: Andres, helmacon, Gwolfski

EXPENSE CREDIT:
6 - Aether Reactor: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist, Andres, Kadzar, Gwolfski, voidslayer
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4329 on: August 25, 2017, 10:34:29 am »

Aerophobic crystals seems to be winning. Revisions in an hour or so.

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4330 on: August 25, 2017, 12:40:04 pm »

Revision: Aerophobic Shells [5]

Further refinements to how the print logic for our crystal fabrication units allow us to produce crystal objects with a higher degree of precision.  We can now produce highly complex shapes and designs; most notably is the fact that our Mathemagicians have derived the best aerodynamic shapes for our artillery, rifle, and cannon shells.  Since this application is strictly related to our crystal ammunition, all weapons that use the CAF no longer have the range penalty. Stopping power is still reduced due to the light-weight crystal, and the increase in cost and lack of diversified ammo types means the CAF is still unfeasible for battlefield conditions.

evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4331 on: August 25, 2017, 01:52:16 pm »

Expense Credit: Aether Reactor

We set up dedicated workshops for the production of Aether Reactors, dropping the expense by one level.  The Lightning and Valkyrie drop one expense level as well.

Please submit the duel reports for the Research Credit.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 03:17:31 pm by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4332 on: August 25, 2017, 03:01:13 pm »

I'll submit my report later today when I'm not on a phone. But more than just mine would be appreciated too.

Also Evicted, two questions -
1.) The revision was more general and I believe intended to reduce the effect of wind magic on our aircraft too. Was this noted? (I'll let Andres talk about this more if he cares)
2.) Considering the R1 and the Lightning turret/AS-HAC use single ammo types and that they'd just be Expensive with a +1 to expense, why isn't the CAF feasible for them?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4333 on: August 25, 2017, 03:25:44 pm »

It is fragile and cumbersome ( bad for the R1) and at HAC size, it might be slower than manually reloading ( although , if we link it to main reactor, who know?)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4334 on: August 25, 2017, 04:10:04 pm »

Well, both of our revisions went into uselessness. Might help later, but for now... we'll be fine because we had a spare expense credit.
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