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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 175704 times)

therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1230 on: November 30, 2018, 10:25:11 am »

Or, at the very least ask them 'anything local?'. I can imagine in a world where for some bizare reason there's only one interesting thing and it's happening on the other side of the map, you'd want to be able to annoy the npcs for all the rumours they know.

That reminds me...

Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1231 on: November 30, 2018, 11:37:01 am »

Or, at the very least ask them 'anything local?'. I can imagine in a world where for some bizare reason there's only one interesting thing and it's happening on the other side of the map, you'd want to be able to annoy the npcs for all the rumours they know.

That reminds me...

Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours

There are outdated rumors certainly, of which are not true 'anymore' unless the player purposefully spreads misinformation. We'll have to see whether villians can utilise this to act as bait for people of interest, going with promises of a forgotten artifact and instead finding a gang of assassins ambush you.
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Fatace

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1232 on: November 30, 2018, 12:20:06 pm »

Fatace, don't you think the issue with the troubles isn't also that a lot of them aren't 'local'? When I ask for troubles a lot of them are across the world(Which makes 'I don't know, and I don't know anybody who could tell you' pretty infuriating too), with the exception of asking for troubles on islands.

I wasn't referring to local problems compared to quests that take u across the map, I meant the info that all the locals (the townies, ect. in the area) have heard, such as going to the main big town, and finding out some of the info right away that everyone in the town, and nearby halmets have heard of.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1233 on: November 30, 2018, 12:35:15 pm »

Fatace, don't you think the issue with the troubles isn't also that a lot of them aren't 'local'? When I ask for troubles a lot of them are across the world(Which makes 'I don't know, and I don't know anybody who could tell you' pretty infuriating too), with the exception of asking for troubles on islands.

I wasn't referring to local problems compared to quests that take u across the map, I meant the info that all the locals (the townies, ect. in the area) have heard, such as going to the main big town, and finding out some of the info right away that everyone in the town, and nearby halmets have heard of.

Toady explained this in his talk before last when explaining villian plots and networks, clues are added as a exposition device so that the player isn't always going to be stumped by a unknown network of villian figures with the convenient 'note left behind by employer to goon' in the middle of a bandit camp etc, i guess in practice working upon rumors for these quests it has to be very much the same if not a little run up bit of practice.

Youtube link to talk at the Roguelike Celebration.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 12:36:51 pm by FantasticDorf »
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1234 on: November 30, 2018, 12:44:43 pm »

Well the thing is that they know everything that is up in a whole world because the regions are pretty small, and people do travel a lot meaning that rumours get spread really quickly. So if you'd make a town bullitin board, it'd just have all the rumours in a whole world.

So that's why I am thinking maybe the kind of rumours they tell you when you ask for specific troubles should (also?) be filtered a little? Like, maybe the kidnappings of 30 years ago are really not that relevant, nor is the army marching on my fort a few years ago.

And yes, there are several 'improve the questlog/quest handling' entries on the dev page. I am very much looking forward to them as the previous ones were pretty nice too :3
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Urist McSadist

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1235 on: November 30, 2018, 01:42:18 pm »


How exactly is magic going to behave in world gen? Will shooting fireballs, for instance maybe give you a combat advantage that get's countered by fire resistance or something?

Also are we gonna be able to order our dwarves to cast certain spells through a menu?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1236 on: November 30, 2018, 03:53:22 pm »


How exactly is magic going to behave in world gen? Will shooting fireballs, for instance maybe give you a combat advantage that get's countered by fire resistance or something?

Also are we gonna be able to order our dwarves to cast certain spells through a menu?


Im not sure Toady's landed upon anything concrete just yet and if you dont mind me saying these sound a lot like suggestions in relation to the menu, there hasn't been any insinuation that the player would have a hand in compelling a magic using dwarf (if applicable) to cast on command, except maybe move them into a dangerous situation like necromancers do currently whether they are your fortress dwarves or not.

Natural counters to fire exist, like dragon materials & nethercap, which make good fire resistant shields whether there will be more we'll see depending on how practical or metaphysical magic appears.
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1237 on: November 30, 2018, 04:30:17 pm »

Next devlog will be about fotf so ill ask here.
Hows your progress with religion?
Also i was wondering what was the hardest part to realise in villain arc so far. And have you had some annoying bugs that took much time to fix in villain arc?
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1238 on: November 30, 2018, 05:13:29 pm »

Next devlog will be about fotf so ill ask here.
Hows your progress with religion?
I imagine the answer will look a lot like October's - if there is any progress worth noting, it'll be in the devlog itself. And given that it's only been three days, coupled with the other month-end things that turn up (and corruption might not have been completely finished given Toady's wording), I'm doubtful Toady had much opportunity to work on religion changes.
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Rubik

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1239 on: November 30, 2018, 05:53:17 pm »

Seems I was in time before this Fof started, let's see if toady can answer this
1.Are we gonna get ethic conditions for dwarves that cheat on their partners? Seeing as it's something that's culturally adressed in one way or the other
2.Do you think there'll be time to add prisioners and kidnapping/ransomming missions befor the big wait?
3.The same for the medical revamping for adventure mode

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 06:38:02 pm by Rubik »
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bieux

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1240 on: November 30, 2018, 06:37:39 pm »

It can't hurt to ask

1. What are going to be the physical, mental or otherwise fundamental characteristics for a creature to be ellegible as a villain? (or what characteristics will cull them from being able to?) Will kobold villains be a thing? or even ogres?
2. Likewise, what will a villain consider to add as a node for their plot? Can a werebeast get into their contacts? prehaps a tamed non-speaking creature?
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GenericUser

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1241 on: November 30, 2018, 06:59:06 pm »

With dwarves getting temptations, will there be affairs and illegitimate children in this arc? Or any unfaithfulness, say for that pretty gem setter instead of their spouse?
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Doorkeeper

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1242 on: November 30, 2018, 09:38:57 pm »

With dwarves getting temptations, will there be affairs and illegitimate children in this arc? Or any unfaithfulness, say for that pretty gem setter instead of their spouse?

Affairs and infidelity are planned. They were mentioned previously in the devlogs during the development of worldgen romantic links. Children can be born outside marriage too. Actual legitimacy customs (i.e. child status/rights) however is not planned for this release; Toady explained how kids out of wedlock will work in the October FotF.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1243 on: November 30, 2018, 10:22:52 pm »

Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours
The only thing people can lie about is their identity. Besides that, there's no false rumours.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1244 on: December 01, 2018, 01:25:39 am »

Quote from: Bumber
Are strange moods going to be overhauled during the upcoming Myth and Magic arc?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7881449#msg7881449

Quote from: Jacubus
Will we be able to interact with trade companies in fortress mode or are they world gen only?

On similar note, you had also mentioned priests doing similar thing in a devlog, will they travel to player fortress temples?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7885009#msg7885009

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Just in case the answer's not apparent by the end of the month, I enjoyed the live twittering of your talk yesterday, but will there be a video/audio?

Knight Otu: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7885273#msg7885273
Shonai_Dweller (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7886571#msg7886571

Quote from: Egan_BW
Would you ever consider adding non-ascii graphics to the game, to help communicate things that would be hard to illustrate using text alone? Thinking of things like a spherical world map, for example.

Mainly asking if you consider that to be an option or if you're attached to the classic ascii. Or if it would be too annoying to implement other graphics into the game.

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7885860#msg7885860
Egan_BW (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7886107#msg7886107

I don't have anything to add to PatrikLundell, really, even with the follow-up question.  We'd need a different example than a spherical world map, which isn't going to happen.  That old visualizer for the underground didn't help at all, so I'm not the one to be doing it, anyway.

Quote from: Inarius
About Magic : do you already have a "list" of spells you would like to be in the game (i understand all of them wouldn't be in a game, considering the way magic & myth will work, but I suppose that "magical effects" will be drawn from some kind of list, somewhere ?), and if yes, how many of them have you, yet ?

For the test myth generator, we were working with a list of 234 more-or-less basic effects.  How you define an "effect" determines a lot though -- in the myth gen system, the effect leading to fire bolt/spray/strike/ball would all be the same effect, for instance, with the targeting/magnitude etc. systems taking the load there (where in current DF, projectiles complicate this somewhat.)  So it's not a list we're committing to until we see how it interacts with DF's actual specific details; mostly we just scraped various systems and our own heads for a list of effects we were (1) interested in, (2) thought we could possibly pull off, (3) were different from each other.  I'm not sure if that answers your question.

Quote from: therahedwig
I was playing adventure mode a bit back, and went from a town to visit the nearby dwarves. The town had been recently reclaimed by a human civ, and the dwarves told me there was a criminal organisation in the town. I was confused because I hadn't seen anything like that, so I went back and into all the underground structures I could find. There, I found the criminal organisation, but they were all dead, properly buried with slabs that said how they'd died(a Roc visited about 70 years earlier, which turned the town into a ruin in the first place).

But my character couldn't tell people about what I'd just read. Even funnier, looking at the stories my character knew, it seems she already knew about the criminal organisation and that they'd died from that Roc. And telling the story didn't generate a rumour either. So I have several questions:

1. What exactly is causing this rift between stories and rumours?
2. Is that also why my character, who can read, and read that gravestone cannot gain the information that these people are already dead?
3. Do you want a bugreport for this, or is it just a case of missing features?

1. Historical events and rumors are almost completely different from each other.  There are reasons for this, but they've been growing back together; there's just a lot of text and logic that needs to be written up for people to understand a general retelling of history.
2. Yes, 'incidents' are more closely linked to rumors, and carry that information currently, which is different from a historical death.  Again, the sort of thing we'd like to link together, but there's work to be done.
3. It's a gray area I guess.  A bug report serves as a good reminder, and I'd recommend it here, but generally of course I wouldn't want the bug reports to become a place for suggestions.

Quote
Quote from: Grand Sage
With vampires beeing candidates for villanious plots, how will the next update affect vampire cults?
Quote from: FantasticDorf
I thought id follow up on the above question since the cult was brought up.

Will there be any rules on who can join particular night beast or enclosed villian network?

EI you must be willingly converted into a vampire to join a vampire cult's scheme or be recruited from many of the blood drinkers hiding away in civilisations with the associated secret handshakes that come with the job.

Cults would need to be considered, but I haven't thought about the specifics of the vampire case generally; this will literally be one of those "It's a good day for vampire villains!!!" kind of work flows.  I believe my notes are something along the lines of "cults need to be considered," he he he.

None of the current villain networks work by application currently; the higher-ups loop people in.  Some simple personality/relationship calcs etc. enter into it, on top of the overall condition e.g. "blackmailable due to embezzlement."  I haven't considered the odder cases and it'll happen on the fly as above.

Quote from: KittyTac
Will there be procedurally-generated secret handshakes?

Ha ha, suggestions if that was a suggestion and not a joke response to somebody else (I don't remember!)

Quote from: squamous
Will the villain update change how hearthperson quests work? Like the "cause trouble" quest for bandits is one people still aren't quite sure how to solve, so will it be replaced by more complex villain shenanigans?

The current release is not necessarily going to alter them, but broken quests suck of course and should eventually be changed.  Most of the lords aren't very ambitious right now, and such a quest would be a sign of them not actually being a 'villain' in the broad sense.

Quote from: FrankVill
Nowadays dwarfs only sleep or eat in order of their own needs. They donīt seem that day/night cycle have any influence on them. There is always a constant activity in every fortress.
1- In what arc do you plan to make that almost all dwarfs dream on the night and there was silence and quiet under the moon? and what previous requisits would the game needs to have by you could implement it?
2- How do you believe that it could affect at game rythm? I sometimes imagine the possible result and I think that any construction would be slower or something like this ( I am too accustomed to frenetic life style of dwarfs, ha ha)
3- Is there any future feature waiting for night dreams or this only would change the way of tell stories? (maybe vampyrs will become more interesting than now)

Grand Sage: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7888466#msg7888466

Quote from: therahedwig
1. Friendships and similar links are made during worldgen and in fort mode. Will, if we expel a dwarf, this dwarf continue creating such links in the hillocks or wherever they are?

From the devlogs(08/18) and comments by a.o. rumrusher in the adventure mode forum, I understand that one of the reasons that adventure mode skirmishes tend to be a little lackluster is because most figures in adventure mode are pulled from the entity pops and are just answering questions from a flashcard, which is what leads to all the 'I know who my liege is, but I have no opinion on them and also can't tell you where they are' because they never met their liege being fresh histfigs, and so if they see the guy attacked it's like 'I have no real opinion on this person, but that fight sure looks scary' and then they run away. And all this linking stuff is to reduce that type of response (because it would make villains inciting trouble also pretty lackluster).

2. Is it planned to have the fresh histfigs make use of all these new positions and the like to guess at how they feel about an attack or a person? Like, will a fresh peasant, who follows the god of agriculture really religiously, recognize the priest of that religion and infer they have a link? Or a weaver recognize their guild representatives and try to help them when they're in trouble? Or is this only for preexisting histfigs for now?

3. Now that such links are more important in the world sim, will we be getting information about those links being made through the rumour system. Or, to be more blunt: Will the npcs now do proper gossiping instead of just scaring each other with stories about the dragon in the cave on the other end of the world? Because I've never come across for example, them telling each other so-and-so had a baby even though that is definitely something that happens in the world sim.

4. Do you think the upcoming system would already be capable of world war 1 diplomacy cascades where one thing goes wrong and several linked entities are suddenly at war with one another?

1. They'll be able to do whatever the post w.g. people can do when I get there after w.g. villains.  Friendships, corruption, lovers, etc., are all on the menu, and we'll see what goes through.

Linkages don't help with ent pops, but even the existing historical figures were bad.

2. It's not completely a blank slate.  There's already an opinion survey structure that sits inside of the ent pops which is why you do get some different reactions when asking about local rulers within the same pop (it's supposed to still work, anyway), and that's adopted by elevated hist figs.  Entity linkages also inform them, and they have opinions about the groups to which they belong.  Which is why they'll sometimes jump into fights (if I recollect.)  But it's not very good.  It's possible they might use their religious link; but that depends on how the entities work in the end, and that's not clear yet, as we aren't out of w.g. yet.

3. Historical events and relationships and rumors are all different things.  We could have been doing broader gossip this whole time, based on the information we have, but we just haven't done it yet (unless you are the one to ask about, say, "family" or whatever.)

4. We're working toward it, anyway.  But I'm not sure the villains are going to lead us to a strong enough notion of alliance for this release, for stuff to go quite so rapidly.  I'm not sure the network of e.g. friendships will pull so hard.

Quote from: Rowanas
A quick question from the Tea suggestion thread -

Will dwarves always be the primary protagonists of the game?  Will they cease to exist in no magic realms?  Will the name of the game change if Dwarves are deposed in such a fashion?  Bonus question - What can I do to make sure Dwarves are always in the limelight, because screw playin filthy humies.

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7890905#msg7890905
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7890976#msg7890976
Egan_BW: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7890979#msg7890979

Just to add to those, the standard settings will, on the other hand, support the continued existence of dwarves if you want to play that way, and you should be able to create a "no traditional magic" world that still has dwarves.

Quote from: Beag
1. Will civilizations sometimes in times of war draft their citizens into the army?
2. If they do perform drafts might our player adventurers from those civilizations sometimes be drafted into the army?
3. Will the purposes of magic organizations include more things besides magic related stuff? For example in one world could a civilization have an army of war wizards?
4. If drafts are a thing that can be performed will our adventurer made hamlets eventually be able to draft citizens into our armies?

1. There aren't much in the way of standing armies.  Most of the combatants are just regular people, both in worldgen and afterward.
2. We had a notion of this at some point, but the lack of control at times needs to be handled, as it relates to being in an army, especially the wait part of "hurry up and wait" and the boredom part of "boredom punctuated by moments of terror".
3. We're aiming for this kind of thing in certain worlds, yeah.
4. This is probably likely to happen before the adventurer can be drafted themselves.

Quote from: Death Dragon
Will modders be able to create new entities like companies or guilds or at least be able to modify the existing ones to customise the names of titles and stuff like that?
Will modders be able to restrict certain civilisations from being able to found organisation entities like those?

I'm sure this one has been asked before, but:
In the latest Threetoe story it says
"They often spent years in an unbroken trance, projecting their spirits into Osoai. In that place, where lost souls swam, time passed quickly, so that during what seemed like an hour spent there, a year passed on Earth."
Would these differing time scales between worlds actually be doable in DF? When you return to the normal world, you'd have to wait for the time progression to be calculated, which would surely take a long (real life) time. Did you think of any possible work around for this?

On time scales, Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7891725#msg7891725

That addresses the player perspective, the hard one; other people can just be made to go live in fast-time land.  So, we'd like to try at some point, but it's not easy.

With new entities, they are in that procgen limbo with forgotten beasts right now.  I don't have a text format yet since I don't understand the situation well enough (and thus use cludgy hard-coded stuff that can be weaved through special cases and other crap more quickly); this will change when we get to the status/etc. release to some extent, as that'll be when we really support sub-entities within a broader culture in a much more robust way.  This last push has all been bandaid-level stuff for villains that just got a little out of hand (as usual.)

The foundation of guilds/companies etc. depends on the values of the civ.  If you make your civ neutral or less on commerce, for example, they won't found companies (provided you haven't used the old merchant nobility flag, which also triggers them.)

Quote
Quote from: Townsey
In adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable? Edit: I am talking about the next update which will introduce pets and parties to adventure mode, not about the long-term magic stuff
Quote from: FantasticDorf
Question building upon the one above: Will interactions with megabeasts ever be the target of villian networks. ei:such as the said necromancer building forces or hiring agents to slay a dragon so he can command and ride it personally into battle through ressurection being the cataclysmic end-goal.

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7891841#msg7891841
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7891967#msg7891967

Hmm, it might take an extra line to make them "official" pets, rather than followers.  I'll check.

'Ever' is a scary word, naturally, but that's the sort of thing ultimately we'd like people to think about.  That sort of search for logical connections has to be taught to them most times (sometimes we get lucky), so it would take a directed effort, which I haven't done yet.

Quote from: WordsandChaos
For religions in the world, how expansive will the framework for that be? Will it draw a distinction between a dominant/origin/umbrella faith and religious denominations/subgroups/sects/cults? Or is the plan to treat everything as an entirely seperate group?

Is there any plans to change how groups currently handle identity change? They currently seem to reinvent themselves anytime someone in charge kicks the bucket and is succeded by another member, which inadvertantly stops them from gaining a recognisable presence or legacy in the world due to the rate of turnover.

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7891994#msg7891994
WordsandChaos (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7892338#msg7892338
Random_Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7892478#msg7892478
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7892732#msg7892732

The criminal group situation as described in op's second post sounds like a bug.  Leadership changes aren't supposed to lead to new groups entirely.  Nor are criminal groups supposed to be linked to individuals in that manner.  There are other situations where new groups are made (I think), like abandoning fortresses, where it was difficult to manage it any other way at this point, even if keeping the same group would be ideal; another thing to look at in the future entity work.

We aren't able to do much with religious structure without the broader rewrite, and this is not meant to be a comprehensive rewrite at this time (as with the guilds etc.)

Quote from: Random_Dragon
What are your thoughts on the in-universe way the current placeholder for surnames is handled? My guess is that it's instead essentially a second given name, presumably chosen by whichever parent didn't decide their first name, or possibly a compound surname influenced by both parents in some way that doesn't yet reliably produce results logical to an outside observer, which would work very well for adapting into a proper compound surname via changing how the compound is generated.

I'd prefer to have a culture-bound procedural system for surnames (if they exist), generally.  The main reason I haven't bothered is the language rewrite; I'd like to have more tools before sinking time into what would otherwise be a dead-on-arrival system, though clearly that doesn't always stop me.

Quote from: Real_bang
Whats your plans after the villain update hit the mark? Will you take more time improving sieges or go straight into myth and magic. Cause iirc you said that you might hold off with sieges if villains take too much time

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7893719#msg7893719

I am in a state of total ambivalence on sieges currently, ha ha ha.  At this point, it doesn't make sense to commit to either way, since the feeling on the ground will be whatever it is when the villains are released.

Quote from: Urist Mcpiromano
What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?

scourge728: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7893831#msg7893831
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7893856#msg7893856
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7893926#msg7893926

Don't have a better sense of when it is going to begin.  The villain update will arrive when it does, and around that time we'll have to decide what's up, but it's harder to do it before then.  Too much on the plate to realistically know now.

Quote
Quote from: Japa
With dwarfs stealing money, does that bring us at all closer to having an economy back?
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
With people suffering from gambling problems now, does that mean you might just tackle the tavern games without having to wait for the economy to be reintroduced?

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894020#msg7894020

"at all closer" is like "ever", he he he.  We are in fact, closer, as the historical figures all have little 'accounts' they are working with, so whether they are opening a new merchant company warehouse or are running up an abstract gambling debt, the histories should be broadly consistent about what their state/level of distress is.  This doesn't mean it makes sense as an economy, or that it even represents a currency.

Ha ha ha, if you wanna see a 2020 release we can tackle tavern games.  I mean, don't respond to that, I know some people would want to see them anyway, including me, but I am showing restraint, as much as somebody that just added merchant companies and guilds for the villain release is showing restraint.

Quote from: Death Dragon
Are there any corrupt activities happening after worldgen? If it only happens during worldgen, does that mean you'll eventually run out of things to blackmail people with in the world?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894184#msg7894184

We live in hope that the post w.g. phase (which comes up after the world gen villain part is done) will carry over as much as we can.  There are always limitations here, but in the same way we brought births over to post w.g., we're hoping non-villainous corrupt practices can also take the ride.  It seems like there won't be any hard barriers, but they creep up sometimes.

Quote from: Real_bang
From your latest devlog you said that human became chief chef of the entire kingdom. Does that mean we can find him in some special place like royal kitchen actually doing his job or for now this role will be a filler for future law/economy arc?
Also does that mean that our forts will have more barony titles like the one above?

We don't have any special new rooms, and the jobs are mostly filler; as implied in the last dev log, the responsibilities of the position might lead to specific schemes related to those responsibilities.  Dwarven baron positions aren't procedural, so their households would depend on raw additions currently.  We haven't made final decisions there, but some additions would make sense.

Quote from: Eric Blank
1)You mentioned gambling problems. What are dwarves actually gambling on? Can they gamble on the outcomes of WG festivities/tournaments? Or is it just abstract board/card games for now?
2) With business sabotage, is that something that can take place in fort mode by the time of this release as well? Will we have dwarves arranging unfortunate accidents for rivals? Could jealous blacksmiths try to ensure the magma forges ruin the creations/lives of the other smith or "accidentally" drop a masterwork under a drawbridge/into magma?
3) Could a greedy broker in my own fort start trying to hide my nice trade goods in his cabinets? If so, would a villainous conspirator that knew approach him and threaten blackmail? Say, could an adventurer try to use him to steal an artifact? If i found out about his secret stache of goods without a dwarf reporting him, how will i go about indicting him legally? Get the guard captain stationed in his room, or deconstruct his container, and hope they discover it? I can always throw him under a drawbridge, but thats doesnt sound like quite as much fun suddenly.
4) What all will pseudo-guildmasters be doing in fort mode? Its a noble position ive modded in in the past for the heck of it, but they never served a purpose anyway, and as we arent going so far as having proper guilds, i dont see them really doing anything nobles cant already do. Could they, for instance, meet with unhappy workers like the mayor/expedition leaders do?
5) in what way will temple profaning be linked to this new framework? I dont get it, will dwarves with villainous personalities decide they want to profane the temple to become vampires? Or will they be more likely to by accident because of their personality, and good folks less so?
5b) On the flipside of that, its always been the case that only a few deities ever have temples in the world, so the deities who have one are doing all the cursing. Will other deities get small shrines or otherwise a chance to curse people anytime soon?

1) He he he, unspecified.  Given what we have, it's most likely those festival competitions, yeah.  I may add some flavor specifics yet, if I get a chance to revisit before release.

2) It's certainly on the table!  All of these world gen corruptions are going to be in a candidate pool for fort mode shenanigans, and the ones that are easier to do will be the ones that go in on the first place, most likely.  Part of the problem here is that there's no ownership for workshops unless the player specifically sets it up, so they might have to target e.g. masterpieces instead.  If they aren't flat-out murdering people, yeah.

3) So, as I said before, I didn't want to spoil too much about villainous plots in the fort, as it would spoil some of my fun in torturing the players with things they don't know about.  Things have been considered, and yeah, your adventurer would have equal access to opportunities against your (presumably retired) fort here, if the citizens haven't moved, as their corrupt transgressions would be stored in the same way as they are elsewhere in the world.  Having your player learn about these things is an unspecified part of adv mode villainy which we have to tackle generally.

Now over on the justice side, yeah, the whole idea of the player finding evidence before the dwarves find the evidence is a principle concern.  It would be a little annoying to force you through artificial hoops (like furniture deconstruction), but the alternative is the ability to just arrest people for crimes you invent and then hope you have the evidence for them and are correct (lest you get a rebellion.)  That seems fine?  It's less fiddly than moving the guard around and hoping they spot something on their own, and still requires the guard to go and arrest somebody.  Perhaps ordering an actual search instead of an arrest would also work (instead of a stationing.)  There will surely be new player powers over the justice system, and they will surely be abusable, and we will also try to have people react to abuses we can detect.  That's the idea anyway.

4) That was the idea before; the old guildmasters could order work slowdowns, if I recollect, and otherwise be annoying if you didn't meet work quotas for them.  I'm not sure at this point how much we'll do with them -- similar to the merchant companies and whatever new religious stuff, I need to be careful in not investing too much time in fort mode stuff that'll be obliterated by the real entity release (it's less of a cost in w.g./off-site and easier to salvage work there.)

5) PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894209#msg7894209
Death Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894318#msg7894318

Yeah, when we get to villain actions, we'll likely have more.  For pre-villains, I just meant the general corruption/crime impulse stuff we've got now, which adds some general personality/stress/temptation elements to the process.  In dwarf mode, only tantruming dwarves, I think, would profane temples, while the worldgen people up until now didn't require any stress or anger or etc. at all, just a die roll.

5b) Yes, in fact, one of our very first steps with the religious stuff is having the possibility of smaller shrines for the additional deities, which should make life quite a bit more interesting.  And not just in the big towns.

Quote from: George_Chickens
One of your talks that mentioned Shadow of Mordor got me wondering. Have there been any modern games which have inspired you to add certain things to Dwarf Fortress, or to modify a feature based on them?

The quest compasses from adv mode are newer than our core inspirations (and also becoming outmoded as people shift to other more descriptive models, which we've always been in favor of generally, but aren't always easy to pull off.)  Climbing on monsters was in all the Harryhausen stuff and we got to e.g. wrestling through that and other non-game sources, without modern games, but references to Shadow of the Colossus I've made in the past are relevant there still to what we'd like to play around with.  Should be lots more along those lines.  I don't remember where our gears/axles came from; that could be general mechanical reading on wikipedia, just to get mills working, but maybe a game that was out?  It's a stew of stuff going on sometimes.

The special attack opportunities in adv mode came from the Ring of Savings that pops up on Jewelry Television which was on in the background for some reason years ago, ha ha ha.  Zach and I still call that indicator "the Ring of Savings."

Quote
Quote from: Fatace
[Adventure Mode related] With the next update, it seems like you will implement a lot more various types of quests other than "criminal" and "Bandit" quests. Do you have plans on revisiting on how players ask info on various quests? Seems a bit tedious when having to spam through various dialogs to get info on each set of beast, criminal, bandit, ect... location.. One world took me about 15 minutes to go through them all.. Could the idea of Notice boards or Bounty Boards be added in place of this? Such as bounty boards for beasts and bandits in certain builders or taverns, or notice board, wanted signs in the lord/lady castle area? So the player could just walk up to it and obtain the knowledge of the locals of multiple quests?
Quote from: therahedwig
Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894376#msg7894376
Inarius: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894396#msg7894396
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894473#msg7894473
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894501#msg7894501
Fatace (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894514#msg7894514
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894523#msg7894523
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894529#msg7894529
Death Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894785#msg7894785

It's the case now that they only talk about things they know about (that includes the famous megabeasts), but sometimes they know a lot.  I agree it needs work.  "Better Quest Handling : Can ask about specific opportunities" on the dev candidate list is in the same limbo as sieges and adv mode medical.  That is, much more likely to be done in the short term than other things, but we have to see what happens after the villain release generally.  But it was meant to handle this kind of thing.  I'm not sure what I think about notice boards specifically; I suppose in the context of "monster slayers" as a specific hero role, like we have, perhaps it isn't a wrong approach, but it needs some kind of world-appropriate backing.

There are no false rumors currently.  It's not an easy problem in general, data-storage-wise, though certain avenues are available.

Quote from: Mediterraneo
Some months ago, I asked about prisoner management, and alternatives with intelligent captives.

Is there anything on the villain arc related to kidnapping, blackmail with captives or asking for ransom? Like asking money to someone rich, a job as guard to a captain of the guards, to start a war on your enemies to a general, king or diplomat, things like that?

Is there anything 'villainous' that can be plotted during a fortress mode game? As opposed to something you should 'just' be aware of and try to prevent?

Thanks!

Yeah, this is very likely, as we get back to the villains soon.

Your off-site squad directives will be able to range into villainous activity.  I'm not 100% sure at this point how far the counter-intelligence is going to go, beyond simple investigation and punishment, but that starts to look like villainy once you get into it at all.

Quote from: Urist McSadist
How exactly is magic going to behave in world gen? Will shooting fireballs, for instance maybe give you a combat advantage that get's countered by fire resistance or something?

Also are we gonna be able to order our dwarves to cast certain spells through a menu?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894602#msg7894602

Fire immunity even figured into the current world gen calculations up to this point (in, say, dragon vs. imp contests), if I recollect, though that code has changed a lot and didn't have a lot of common uses.

But yeah, I don't have a lot of specific information here yet, as we're too far out.  If magic is widely available, then dwarves would just use it naturally in combat, I expect.  If there's reason for them to conserve X or Y, that would have to come up, and hopefully not be as annoying as combat/training ammo etc. has been over the years.  On the other hand, for specific important rituals, yeah, we've given some consideration to having you set these up, etc., if that's part of the system that is generated.

Quote from: Real_bang
Next devlog will be about fotf so ill ask here.
Hows your progress with religion?
Also i was wondering what was the hardest part to realise in villain arc so far. And have you had some annoying bugs that took much time to fix in villain arc?

Knight Otu: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894665#msg7894665

Yeah, I literally haven't started them yet.  Same basic reason as last time, though obviously the particulars have changed.  Month-change is always intense while also not often programming-related.

The hardest part I think with the villain arc has clearly been this whole having to jumpstart the networks part -- I don't feel like I often get caught flat-footed on like three months of work and have to fully stop what I'm doing and go do this kind of background.  I go off on tangents, but this was worse and more structural.  I think that partially had to do with villains themselves being a sudden pre-Big-Wait idea, to give the game some spice before we disappeared for a time, and it obviously needed more cooking, at the time.  But it's good now.  I think.  We'll see when I try them again.

Quote from: Rubik
1.Are we gonna get ethic conditions for dwarves that cheat on their partners? Seeing as it's something that's culturally adressed in one way or the other
2.Do you think there'll be time to add prisioners and kidnapping/ransomming missions befor the big wait?
3.The same for the medical revamping for adventure mode

1. It feels like there's a whole entity framework that needs to be established there with all the *gamys and social mores and all that, which we're not jumping into yet.
2. We're almost assuredly going to get multiple forms of this in dwarf mode, yeah, for the next release.  Haven't even started the dwarf side of villains yet.
3. Adv mode medical is in the same limbo as sieges (see above).

Quote from: bieux
1. What are going to be the physical, mental or otherwise fundamental characteristics for a creature to be ellegible as a villain? (or what characteristics will cull them from being able to?) Will kobold villains be a thing? or even ogres?
2. Likewise, what will a villain consider to add as a node for their plot? Can a werebeast get into their contacts? prehaps a tamed non-speaking creature?

1. Aside from the position held (which might require it), valuing cunning puts them on the potential list, and a few personality facets I think.  Whether they are good at it or not is a completely different matter; the intrigue skill requires several mental attributes.  I don't recall if the gift of speech is required, but being intelligent (as a creature raw tag, not an attribute) certainly is.
2. Useful position holders and those linked to useful position holders are the primary targets, as it concerns general network building.  Tools/assets for certain plots are a broader group (criminals, mercenaries, etc.), but it doesn't yet extend into the wilds.

Quote from: GenericUser
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894715#msg7894715

Doorkeeper: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894777#msg7894777
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