Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

This mod is discontinued

But there's gonna be a better one in the future
- 0 (0%)
.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0


Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 20

Author Topic: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)  (Read 74377 times)

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #165 on: February 18, 2020, 05:37:40 pm »

Just a heads up that major stuff planned for the next mod release is finished, so now it's just the drag of updating civ presets and writing up some more documentation for the thread...

Anyway, it seems that DF v0.47 is going to receive more little fixes and additions for some while, so I'm not too hasty to package the update, and may well get other prompted things done in the mean time, such as stabbing buff, or better trap balance, or more cheap ammo reactions. We'll see.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

scaredyneko

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2020, 06:12:44 pm »

Thank you for your great work. The mod makes the experience of playing DF much more enjoyable.
Logged

Taras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2020, 03:39:38 am »

For inspiration you could search videos 'Fantasy Re-Armed', this will give you ome ideas about weapon sets for every civ in game.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #168 on: February 24, 2020, 04:45:21 am »

Thank you for your great work. The mod makes the experience of playing DF much more enjoyable.

Glad to hear!

For inspiration you could search videos 'Fantasy Re-Armed', this will give you ome ideas about weapon sets for every civ in game.

Watched those some time ago  :)

Unfortunately, though, many of the realistic conventions Shad points out do not apply in DF, while some other things come into play. For instance, the whole elf question revolves around them only having random wood instead of metal, which pretty much downgrades their damage to zero - so I've turned them all into fast supporting units, while the heavy lifting is done by their pets. I did amplify their extra-skillfulness in the optional combat boost, but with wood weapons it's just not enough.
Another good example of such divergence is how the game handles armor and shields. Unless taken to the extreme, armor thickness does not matter in the game's combat, while weight scales rapidly with the size, which means smaller races get armor that is just as protective, but much lighter than that used by larger races. On the oppostite end, shields have a fixed volume and blockchance, meaning their protection scales with the user, while their weight does not, which is beneficial for larger races. The opposite of realism perspective.

Meanwhile, I've had to make sure that dwarves have access to a wide enough variety of equipment to allow the player to pick their own style. Same for kobolds, to give a feeling of mix-and-match stolen weapons they're supposed to use from lore perspective.

And then there's the problem of how non-player armies mix and randomize equipment, but that I was able to partially resolve through the "tactical civs" thing. And yeah, I'll likely make them even more thematic in the future, like giving more of an Isengard flavor to goblin pike-and-shot civ.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 05:00:57 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Taras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #169 on: February 24, 2020, 05:26:57 am »

Thank you for your great work. The mod makes the experience of playing DF much more enjoyable.

Glad to hear!

For inspiration you could search videos 'Fantasy Re-Armed', this will give you ome ideas about weapon sets for every civ in game.

Watched those some time ago  :)

Unfortunately, though, many of the realistic conventions Shad points out do not apply in DF, while some other things come into play. For instance, the whole elf question revolves around them only having random wood instead of metal, which pretty much downgrades their damage to zero - so I've turned them all into fast supporting units, while the heavy lifting is done by their pets. I did amplify their extra-skillfulness in the optional combat boost, but with wood weapons it's just not enough.
Another good example of such divergence is how the game handles armor and shields. Unless taken to the extreme, armor thickness does not matter in the game's combat, while weight scales rapidly with the size, which means smaller races get armor that is just as protective, but much lighter than that used by larger races. On the oppostite end, shields have a fixed volume and blockchance, meaning their protection scales with the user, while their weight does not, which is beneficial for larger races. The opposite of realism perspective.

Meanwhile, I've had to make sure that dwarves have access to a wide enough variety of equipment to allow the player to pick their own style. Same for kobolds, to give a feeling of mix-and-match stolen weapons they're supposed to use from lore perspective.

And then there's the problem of how non-player armies mix and randomize equipment, but that I was able to partially resolve through the "tactical civs" thing. And yeah, I'll likely make them even more thematic in the future, like giving more of an Isengard flavor to goblin pike-and-shot civ.
This videos are good, because they about thinking. What effective weapon giant will use versus human army? Long stick/staff as blunt, scythe as edged weapon, bows and slings as ranged weapons, buckler and greaves for prodect lower body from enemy's spear. So, example, you could make tactical civ of ettins/ogres/cyclops with this equipment.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2020, 06:21:28 am »

Expanding upon civilizations for more variety of combat situations is on my to-do list, but there's just a ton of balancing stuff to do beforehand. I don't wanna rush new features.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Taras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #171 on: February 24, 2020, 06:39:52 am »

Expanding upon civilizations for more variety of combat situations is on my to-do list, but there's just a ton of balancing stuff to do beforehand. I don't wanna rush new features.
If you will do expanding with logic, logic will make realistic balance for you.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #172 on: February 24, 2020, 07:03:41 am »

Quite the opposite, because game mechanics. Taking giant races as example, there is no difference between giving them a scythe-like weapon or a big-ish axe, because in DF there are no AoE weapon strikes and no simulation of reach (outside of the attack speed crutch I use), and large attack contact area is a detriment when fighting human-sized creatures and below. So any such addition requires lots of brainstorming and testing for it to make sense, which isn't in priority since I still need to fine-tune already existing features of the mod.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Taras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #173 on: February 24, 2020, 08:19:48 am »

Quite the opposite, because game mechanics. Taking giant races as example, there is no difference between giving them a scythe-like weapon or a big-ish axe, because in DF there are no AoE weapon strikes and no simulation of reach (outside of the attack speed crutch I use), and large attack contact area is a detriment when fighting human-sized creatures and below. So any such addition requires lots of brainstorming and testing for it to make sense, which isn't in priority since I still need to fine-tune already existing features of the mod.
Difference will be for you, for logic and for further versions. Even if in current version scythe will work as axe. Probably, for imitation AoE you could make faster weapon using.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #174 on: February 28, 2020, 05:01:03 pm »

So I did end up adding more cheap ammo reactions and rebalancing stabbing in the meantime. Gonna need some fine-tuning, but seems to work alright in general. The latter also prompts a much needed full re-evaluation of weapon costs, and I can already see that there's no way to stuff them all into the same old 6 tier restriction; and with obsolete weapons already removed, this closes the current poll. I'll try not to go too far on the amount of tiers though.

Anyway.
A new poll is up!
This time more informal.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2020, 03:11:52 am »

Hello!What percentage of ingots is obtained by remelting your weapons and armor?

Have to correct myself here a bit: according to wiki, the "default" percentage of ingots obtained by smelting weapons and armor is 90% (and unfortunately can only be raised straight to 120%, not 100%). Generally, this won't create any losses with remelting-reforging, as DF rounds up the numbers, but some expensive items (6 bars and above, presumably) might experience a 1-2 bar net loss. I'll make sure to verify this later.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

DWARFFRAWD

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2020, 08:26:41 am »

hey! this mod does compatible with 47.04?
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #177 on: March 23, 2020, 08:44:58 am »

Not yet officially, although, you can edit the item_tool.txt and entity_default.txt to include the stuff added in 0.47.xx (altars, dice, new entity tags) - otherwise there should be no conflicts.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

vettlingr

  • Bay Watcher
  • jalfur
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #178 on: March 26, 2020, 11:26:16 am »

Do you have a version of your mod that just adjusts vanilla content and doesn't add too much extra stuff?
I was thinking about using you methods as a baseline for a mod.

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #179 on: March 26, 2020, 12:08:22 pm »

Well, all vanilla items are highlighted by =VANILLA= in their respective files (but note that ranged and training weapons, including vanilla ones, have been moved to separate files). They can be fairly safely pulled out for use without anything else, but still provide for better combat pacing and sensible attacks.

Also, the mod's item_tool.txt and item_trapcomp.txt files can be just copied over, as they contain no new stuff, just the rebalance of vanilla items.

If you mean also in terms of which changes I'd consider "core" to the mod's overall balance, then copy these files:
* b_detail_plan_default.txt
* body_default.txt
* material_template_default.txt
* tissue_template_default.txt

With these you'd also get better force transfer balance, more sensible wounds, more realistic wood/leather/cloth strengths and fire damage values for organic mats.
The only non-vanilla stuff there are shoulders and hips for humanoid bodies, which tweak armor coverage (add 1 more step for bodywear/legwear before they proceed unto upper arms/legs) and amplify the importance of torso armor.

Either way, I'd suggest you wait until my next release, as it should be soon enough and with lots of improvements to weapon balance. Then I can also package a vanilla-ish build based on your answer.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 03:07:35 pm by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 20